UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

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UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

Postby RevanFan » Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:42 am

After many days of consternation, I've come up with an updated all-time roster for Dallas. Some cuts were excruciatingly difficult, and as such, I'm including a "practice squad" for the heck of it. One rule I set was that I MUST include all Hall of Fame players known for their Cowboys career and all Ring of Honor members, as well as anyone who could have a shot at the Hall or the Ring in the future. Because I intend to use this for Madden purposes as well, it's at 55 players instead of 53.

All comments and thoughts are welcome.

Code: Select all

QB:

Roger Staubach
Troy Aikman
Tony Romo
Don Meredith

RB:

Emmitt Smith
Tony Dorsett
Ezekiel Elliott

FB:

Daryl Johnston
Don Perkins

WR:

Michael Irvin
Drew Pearson
Bob Hayes
Dez Bryant
Tony Hill
Terrell Owens

TE:

Jason Witten
Jay Novacek
Billy Joe DuPree

T:

Rayfield Wright
Tyron Smith
Ralph Neely
Erik Williams

G:

Larry Allen
Zack Martin
John Niland
Nate Newton

C:

Travis Frederick
Andre Gurode

DE:

Ed Jones
Harvey Martin
George Andrie
Charles Haley

DT:

Bob Lilly
Randy White
Jethro Pugh
Jay Ratliff

MLB:

Lee Roy Jordan
Bob Breunig
Ken Norton, Jr.

OLB:

DeMarcus Ware
Chuck Howley
Dexter Coakley
Dave Edwards

CB:

Mel Renfro
Cornell Green
Everson Walls
Deion Sanders
Terence Newman

S:

Cliff Harris
Darren Woodson
Charlie Waters
Roy Williams

ST:

Dan Bailey
Mat McBriar
L. P. Ladouceur


10 who just missed the cut.

Code: Select all

QB/P Danny White
RB Calvin Hill
T Pat Donovan
T Flozell Adams
G Herbert Scott
C/G Tom Rafferty
DE Tony Tolbert
DE Greg Ellis
MLB/OLB Sean Lee
OLB D. D. Lewis


Thoughts?
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UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

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Re: UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

Postby NICK » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:01 am

Dallas has had so many great players, makes it real tough to choose. I'd take those 10 on my team anyday. Most of them are from my era of watching the Cowboys as A kid. Players are so advanced nowadays, not sure how any of the ones from the 60's or 70's would fare in today's game
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Re: UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

Postby RevanFan » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:03 pm

NICK wrote:Dallas has had so many great players, makes it real tough to choose. I'd take those 10 on my team anyday. Most of them are from my era of watching the Cowboys as A kid. Players are so advanced nowadays, not sure how any of the ones from the 60's or 70's would fare in today's game

Well there are some you know would be dominant, like Howley or Lilly or White. Staubach too. He was a scrambling QB before they became a big thing. Now they're everywhere. He'd fit right in. Probably Hayes too. That kind of athleticism is rare.
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Re: UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

Postby RevanFan » Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:10 pm

Okay, I'm reviving this thread because I recently revised this, and wanted to get some thoughts. This time I went with a 53-man roster and 14-man practice squad, but I moved two players over from the PS to the main roster because I plan to build this in Madden and I wanted to fill all 55 slots.

Thoughts? Comments?

Code: Select all

QB:

#12   Roger Staubach
#8   Troy Aikman
#9   Tony Romo
#4   Dak Prescott      PS
#11   Danny White      PS
#17   Don Meredith      PS

RB:

#22   Emmitt Smith
#33   Tony Dorsett
#21   Ezekiel Elliott
#35   Calvin Hill      PS

FB:

#48   Daryl Johnston

WR:

#88   Michael Irvin
#22   Bob Hayes
#88   Drew Pearson
#80   Tony Hill
#88   Dez Bryant
#82   Frank Clarke      PS
#81   Terrell Owens      PS

TE:

#82   Jason Witten
#84   Jay Novacek
#89   Billy Joe DuPree

LT:

#77   Tyron Smith
#67   Pat Donovan
#76   Flozell Adams      PS

LG:

#73   Larry Allen
#76   John Niland
#68   Herbert Scott
#61   Nate Newton

C:

#72   Travis Frederick
#53   Mark Stepnoski
#62   John Fitzgerald      PS

RG:

#70   Zack Martin
#61   Blaine Nye      PS
#64   Tom Rafferty      PS

RT:

#70   Rayfield Wright
#73   Ralph Neely
#79   Erik Williams

LE:

#72   Ed "Too Tall" Jones
#66   George Andrie
#92   Tony Tolbert      PS

RE:

#79   Harvey Martin
#94   Charles Haley

DT:

#54   Randy White
#74   Bob Lilly
#90   Jay Ratliff
#75   Jethro Pugh

LOLB:

#54   Chuck Howley
#52   Dave Edwards

MLB:

#55   Lee Roy Jordan
#53   Bob Breunig
#50   Sean Lee

ROLB:

#94   DeMarcus Ware
#52   Dexter Coakley
#50   D. D. Lewis

CB:

#20   Mel Renfro
#34   Cornell Green
#21   Deion Sanders
#24   Everson Walls
#41   Terence Newman

FS:

#43   Cliff Harris
#31   Roy Williams
#26   Michael Downs      PS

SS:

#28   Darren Woodson
#41   Charlie Waters

K:

#5   Dan Bailey

P:

#1   Mat McBriar

LS:

#91   L. P. Ladouceur

KR:

#20   Mel Renfro
#43   Cliff Harris
#22   Bob Hayes

PR:

#21   Deion Sanders
#22   Bob Hayes
#20   Mel Renfro


Just missing the cut:

Code: Select all

#32   Walt Garrison      FB/RB
#40   Bill Bates      SS
#43   Don Perkins      RB/FB
#63   Larry Cole      LE/DT
#65   Andre Gurode      C/RG
#71   Mark Tuinei      LT
#77   Jim Jeffcoat      RE
#98   Greg Ellis      LE/LOLB/RE
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Re: UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

Postby MikeWest502 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:57 pm

Just my thoughts but I think you missed some special very talented players!

First I'll start with Dan Reeves #30. He was a monster in the 60's era teams. You can replace Zek Elliot there. The starters imo would be Calvin Hill & Dan Reeves! In that Pro Set/Near/Far backfield we talked about! Tony Dorsett was way better and more dynamic than E.Smith!

Don Meredith should be #3 QB behind #2 Aikman and #1 Staubach! Romo is over rated and shouldn't be on the list period! I think you're wasting space with 6 QBs! Only the top 3 should be on the team!

I did read that it was Iron Mike Ditka who was a beast TE, was the guy who recommended to Landry to go with the Shotgun formation. Novacek or Dupree can be replaced. But Ditka should be the starter.

Bullet Bob Hayes is the best WR the Cowboys ever had, not the cocaine addict Michael Erving. And Golden Richards could easily replace Tony Hill. And T.O should easily replace Dez Bryant! Bryant & Hill should be practice squad guys!

On defense there is this LB that went by the name Hollywood Henderson. I'm shocked he's not on the team! He was a LB returning punts in the SB!

At CB, Walls should be over Sanders, Deion couldn't tackle anyone including my grandma!

I don't see how Deion Sanders is the starting punt returner over Bob Hayes! Or Cliff Harris beats Hayes out as the starting KR! How on earth is Terrance Newman or Sean Lee considered to be on this team?

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Re: UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

Postby RevanFan » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:27 pm

MikeWest502 wrote:Just my thoughts but I think you missed some special very talented players!

First I'll start with Dan Reeves #30. He was a monster in the 60's era teams. You can replace Zek Elliot there. The starters imo would be Calvin Hill & Dan Reeves! In that Pro Set/Near/Far backfield we talked about! Tony Dorsett was way better and more dynamic than E.Smith!

Don Meredith should be #3 QB behind #2 Aikman and #1 Staubach! Romo is over rated and shouldn't be on the list period! I think you're wasting space with 6 QBs! Only the top 3 should be on the team!

I did read that it was Iron Mike Ditka who was a beast TE, was the guy who recommended to Landry to go with the Shotgun formation. Novacek or Dupree can be replaced. But Ditka should be the starter.

Bullet Bob Hayes is the best WR the Cowboys ever had, not the cocaine addict Michael Erving. And Golden Richards could easily replace Tony Hill. And T.O should easily replace Dez Bryant! Bryant & Hill should be practice squad guys!

On defense there is this LB that went by the name Hollywood Henderson. I'm shocked he's not on the team! He was a LB returning punts in the SB!

At CB, Walls should be over Sanders, Deion couldn't tackle anyone including my grandma!

I don't see how Deion Sanders is the starting punt returner over Bob Hayes! Or Cliff Harris beats Hayes out as the starting KR! How on earth is Terrance Newman or Sean Lee considered to be on this team?

1. Dan Reeves had less of an impact than a lot of players, and Elliott is already on pace to pass up Hill in overall production soon. Likely this season. Reeves was very good, and will absolutely be on my 1960s decade team, but he was only a full time starter for two seasons. A few RBs were ahead of Reeves, notably Don Perkins, as well as FB Walt Garrison. Calvin Hill almost made the cut, but again, Elliott has had better production on a per-season basis than Hill, and will pass him up in most stats he hasn't already this season provided he's healthy. Hill had two or three amazing seasons, but that was pretty much it.

2. Romo is statistically the best QB in Dallas history in almost every category. Meredith was great, but he was outperformed in most metrics by all of the QBs I listed above him, except only one metric, which was Pro-Football-Reference Approximate Value per season as a starter. In that metric, he actually beat out Troy Aikman of all people. The only reason Romo is third on my depth chart is because Aikman and Staubach are Hall of Famers. Though... let's be fair, he'd never beat out Staubach in a million years. If you think "Dallas Cowboys", you think "Roger Staubach." As for having 6 QBs... honestly, I did that because there just weren't really enough players that I would consider for those 14 PS spots, so all of the top remaining QBs were added. Plus White can punt haha.

3. Mike Ditka only started in Dallas for a single season. Outside of that he was a backup for three years. He was not even slightly in consideration. In fact, TE had the least competition of all. Witten is easily #1, and no other tight end came close to topping Novacek or DuPree too. Only one who I would have ever considered would have been Frank Clarke, but he was more productive as a WR. And he did make the PS. Doug Cosbie was decent, but he never reached any of the highs that Witten did, and for Novacek and DuPree... I guess Cosbie could give them a run for their money, but DuPree was a stand out blocker at TE and Novacek was a key component on three Super Bowl teams. Ditka had a huge impact on the team, but not as a player.

4. Michael Irvin is, without question, the best WR in Dallas history. Statistically, he was an absolute monster. And don't judge him for his character. He has since changed his life, and also you must keep in mind that half of the team was on something in the 1990s haha. Especially when Switzer came in and just let them run wild. I actually almost had Drew Pearson above Bob Hayes on the depth chart, but upon reviewing their production, and considering how drastically Hayes changed the game, I had to list him as a starter. But he's not above Irvin. As for Richards, he didn't really ever do much. He was a decent #2 but nothing more, and is easily surpassed by every WR on my list. His career high in yards in a season was just 467. I know passing was not as big a deal back then, but still, he was overshadowed by Pearson in every way. Decent player, but not all-time material. All-decade maybe. Not all-time. For Owens... his three years in Dallas were really impressive and he was great, but again... longevity is something I value, and Owens didn't have that with Dallas. Had he been on the team more than three years, he easily would have made it, but at the same time, had those three years not been so good, he wouldn't even be considered for the PS. Though I will say there are versions of this team that had him on it.

5. Hollywood was definitely good, and his story of dealing with his addictions and how Tom Landry saved him is frankly awe-inspiring, but again... no longevity. He was only a starter for three season, and only two of them were great seasons. I love the guy and his story, but he doesn't make the cut.

6. I originally had Walls over Sanders, but Sanders was SO dominant in his five seasons, I had to put him in the slot. No one dared throw his way. But I don't disagree that Walls was great. On another day he may even be #3, but for now I gave it to Sanders. His job wasn't to tackle, but to shut down receivers, and he did that better than anyone at the time. And I put Sanders as the punt returner because he is tied for the most punt return touchdowns in team history and has the best punt return average of anyone on this team. As for Harris as a kick returner, he has the second highest kick return average of anyone on this team. No touchdowns though.

7. Newman is on the team because, frankly, I wanted a 5th cornerback and no one else was close in any of the metrics I looked at. Outside of the top four, Dallas doesn't have a hugely impressive history of cornerbacks. Even Mel Renfro arguably had his best seasons as a free safety. Newman was a solid contributor for a long time, made a few Pro Bowls, and never got burned too bad until he was older. His last year or so was hard to watch, sure, but he's still their fifth best corner I think. As for Lee, Lee has had a lot of injuries, but his performance in seasons when he started at least half of the team's games was absolutely dominating, especially in 2016. His impressive skill when healthy, combined with there not being all that many great inside linebackers, got him a spot. He came out well above Bradie James and Eugene Lockhart, who were the other inside linebackers I considered. Plus Lee has played all three linebacker positions, which is something James and Lockhart can't say, and he's at least been decent at all of them. I guess Jerry Tubbs could go there, but I think Lee had a much greater impact on his seasons than Tubbs did.

Hopefully those responses helped illuminate my decision making a bit.
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Re: UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

Postby MikeWest502 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:54 pm

RevanFan wrote:
Hopefully those responses helped illuminate my decision making a bit.


I don't agree with every player being required to have long careers to be included more that player who were very impactful during shorter careers on the team. Nor was I trying to persuade you to include the guys I mentioned. Plus it's a very different game played in the 60's to the 90's up to now! It's apparent that you're looking at it from a pure statistical point of view! You asked for thoughts and comments. I gave you mine! Like you said, it's your all-time team! I can live with that! Agree to disagree!

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Re: UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

Postby RevanFan » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:05 am

MikeWest502 wrote:
RevanFan wrote:
Hopefully those responses helped illuminate my decision making a bit.


I don't agree with every player being required to have long careers to be included more that player who were very impactful during shorter careers on the team. Nor was I trying to persuade you to include the guys I mentioned. Plus it's a very different game played in the 60's to the 90's up to now! It's apparent that you're looking at it from a pure statistical point of view! You asked for thoughts and comments. I gave you mine! Like you said, it's your all-time team! I can live with that! Agree to disagree!

Players aren't required to have long careers to be on the list. Example: T.O. and Haley. But, I do value it, and none of the guys you mentioned had a big enough impact during their few years to make the list regardless. And I don't look at it from a pure statistical view, but I do value stats highly. If it was all I looked at though, Romo would be the starting QB. But no one in their right mind would put him over Staubach.

And yes, I did ask and I'm glad you obliged. You do have me rethinking TE, but I think I'll still go with the guys I picked over Cosbie. And I am looking at other corners than Newman. Don Bishop and Larry Brown both had decent success, but I'm still not sure they did enough to make the cut. Larry Brown's tenure is kind of a mix too, because 1995 was easily his best year as a starter and all the rest of his seasons weren't that close. Benny Barnes was consistent, but didn't blow anyone away.

I don't know if they did enough to get past Newman, but I do think Newman has the flimsiest spot of the 55 players.

EDIT: I could always drop Newman for Downs, since Waters can play corner... But he kind of sucked at corner haha.

I'm also gonna run through Tubbs and Ken Norton Jr. to compare them to Lee, but I still expect Lee to come out on top.
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Re: UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

Postby RevanFan » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:17 am

I did this for the Yankees too, if you or anyone wants to see that in another thread.
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Re: UPDATED Cowboys All-Time Roster

Postby RevanFan » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:55 am

I created a new thread to hold the All-Decade teams I'm working on as well.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22628
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