Mike Vick rant

[NFLVICK7]

Who else thinks he has a case? Trent Dilfer is an ass, he named the ONE time another QB didn't get a call.

But I've watched the past two years. He gets hit late after he throws all the time, or gets hit heading out of bounds. Plus I saw one or two head shots yesterday. Never asks the ref for a flag, he just keeps playing. It's who he is, he just plays. But Brady or Ben get they leg brushed, or they defender gets thrown into they leg, and its a flag or a fine. I mean my friend who hates the eagles and Vick thinks he's getting screwed.

Does his style bring risk and more hits? Yes ofc, but these are inside the damn pocket. I think why he was so mad is because what if he broke his throwing hand? Thats a whole season gone, and he knows he's only got 4 or 5 seasons left. I think thats why he was so fired up about it.

But this brings me to my next point. Now don't blow up at me for pulling the race card because it's blatantly there. Black QB's getting a raw deal. Few years ago David Garrad is pilve driven, no flag or fine, last year Vince Young is slammed after the whistle, no flag, and i believe no fine. Now is it because they are black (which I doubt its just that) Or is it because they scramble? Either case it's B.S. Just because he scrambles doesn't mean you don't throw flags on late hits inside the pocket.

Now I'm against all this protect the QB nonsense. It is making it too easy for them, but if you're going to protect them, you have to do it for all of them. Not just your Golden Boys. How can your players trust you'll protect them, when you're playing favorites to Brady and Manning and Brees. (Though I like Manning and Brees)

If you're going to over protect QB's you have to do it for all of them, if not, let them be hit.

[BigDaddyCool]

There are a lot of ways to look at this and they could all be thought of as legit angles, so here are a few of them:

Race Card - Yeah I know, some of you will say that its bs and some of you will say damn right. However it is a factor and needs to be looked at. Like Jason Whitlock said in his column:

I noticed two years ago when Donovan McNabb scrambled into the end zone during Philly’s season-opening victory and two Carolina Panthers defensive linemen plopped on top of him for no reason, breaking a rib. The injury accelerated McNabb’s exit from Philly and Vick’s resurrection. The refs didn’t throw a flag. The league ruled the Carolina linemen did nothing wrong.

I argued at the time that if Manning or Brady had been injured in the same situation, the refs, the league and the TV networks would all take action. I also argued at the time that the double standard is not a race issue. It’s an issue of star power. I still believe that (to a point). Manning and Brady are the biggest stars in television. They’re the Michael Jordan and Larry Bird of football. Jordan and Bird were pampered by NBA refs.

The problem is Vick has established himself as Magic Johnson, a ratings-driving TV star in his own right.

The problem is that Vick, McNabb and Vince Young have all had to take late hits without a flag or a fine being leved on the team or guy that hit them. Now all three of them are black, was it about race? Then how to explain when Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger - a couple of white QB's - have the same thing happen to them?

It's not about race, it's a matter of mobility - The five QB's I've mentioned, Vick, McNabb, Young, Rodgers and Rothlisberger are all mobile QB's and have been known to leave the pocket to pick up a first down or two dozen in their time.When they leave the pocket they take their livelihoods in their hands as well as the fortunes of their teams. If they get hurt, do they have a good enough backup to pick up the slack? The thing is that if Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Drew Brees were to get hurt there would be penalties and fines going up the wazoo for the teams that did it. These QB's rarely leave the pocket and there is a perception that they should be protected.

Star Power - If the same thing befell Misters Brady, Manning or Brees as it has Vick, McNabb or Young then you can bet that Robert Kraft, Jim Irsay and Tom Benson would be raising holy hell with the Commissioners office over it, not to mention how loudly the network heads of CBS, NBC, FOX and ESPN would be screaming about it. Why? Simple, they are stars that put the asses in the seats, sell the merchandise, bring in the viewer ratings and in general make the money for everybody involved. Then there are the millions of dollars that the owners are paying these guys to throw and hand-off a ball for 16-24 dates out of the year - buy the way, that figure includes Pre-Season and Playoffs. Think of all the money that would be lost if one of these guys went down to a season-ending or career-ending injury and think of not only the on-field panic because their guy wasn't available, but think of the financial impact. When one of those guys goes down their owners don't think "oh crap, there goes our season". No, they think "oh crap, there goes my balance sheet!!!"

There is a lot of money involved here, and the owners want to make sure that their guy stays healthy so that he can keep bringing in all of that extra cash on Sunday. There are literally billions of dollars at stake here. Not only do the owners want to see these guys out on the field but the league itself wants to see these guys out on the field because of all the money that they pull in. Brady, Manning and Brees pull in more money that Vick, McNabb and Young, so guess who is going to get the lion's share of the calls? Ask Jim Irsay if his bottom line is being effected right now that longer Peyton is sidelined? How do you think he feels right now knowing that his cash cow is being transformed into hamburger every single week, and he knows that there is absolutely nothing that he can do about it?

Every other owner right now is lobbying Roger Goodell to protect every single one of their QB's so that the same thing doesn't happen to them.

"Put 'em in a skirt" - Back in the day that was Jack Lambert's opinion as to how QB's should be treated. I wonder what the attitude of Mr. "put the QB's in a skirt" would have been if during the 1974 AFC Championship Otis Sistrunk had pile-driven Terry Bradshaw into the Oakland Colesium turf in the third quarter with the Raiders still leading the game? Would he still have been of the attitude that QB's didn't need protection if the Raiders as a result of that had gone to and won five Super Bowls in that decade and if they were thought of as a dynasty and not the Steelers? Would his attitude be different?

Seriously though, if you say that QB's are too coddled, then you shouldn't be bitching when/if the QB on your favorite team is injured because of a late hit or cheap shot. If its not good enough for your guy, then its not good enough for anybody else's.

[NFLVICK7]

I agree with just about everything you said, and good point on the McNabb play against Carolina I had forgotten about it.

I think this whole protect the QB thing is total B.S. If a RB or a WR can be tackled by they legs so should QB's.

But if you are going to protect these guys it should be the same for everyone.

Btw I loved how Keyshaun, T.J, C.C, Coach, and Berman all stood up for Vick. It was awesome.

Dilfer is just Jealous of Vick's talent, and still thinks he was more than a game manager at QB. Talking about looking down the gun Barrel and getting popped. Well if it were Brady getting popped it would be a flag and the commentator would be saying how dirty and cheap it was. Dilfer bad mouths any QB who is athletic and can run at all. In my mind he doesn't see Vick as a true QB. Steve Young just hates in general how the QB's are babied which i agree with, but if the NFL is going to baby them, then Vick should be treated the same.

Brady gets his knee busted and a rule gets changed, Vick gets destroyed on a weekly basis by late hits and people say he has to stay in he pocket more, or he holds the ball too long. BULL SHIT. A late hit is a late hit regard less of how long you hold the ball.

This isn't just me as a Vick fan, it's me as a fan of all the QB's named, Young, Vick, McNabb. Why can't these QB's get any love?

[Danchat]

I agree with just about everything you said, and good point on the McNabb play against Carolina I had forgotten about it.

I think this whole protect the QB thing is total B.S. If a RB or a WR can be tackled by they legs so should QB's.

But if you are going to protect these guys it should be the same for everyone.

Btw I loved how Keyshaun, T.J, C.C, Coach, and Berman all stood up for Vick. It was awesome.

Dilfer is just Jealous of Vick's talent, and still thinks he was more than a game manager at QB. Talking about looking down the gun Barrel and getting popped. Well if it were Brady getting popped it would be a flag and the commentator would be saying how dirty and cheap it was. Dilfer bad mouths any QB who is athletic and can run at all. In my mind he doesn't see Vick as a true QB. Steve Young just hates in general how the QB's are babied which i agree with, but if the NFL is going to baby them, then Vick should be treated the same.

Brady gets his knee busted and a rule gets changed, Vick gets destroyed on a weekly basis by late hits and people say he has to stay in he pocket more, or he holds the ball too long. BULL SHIT. A late hit is a late hit regard less of how long you hold the ball.

This isn't just me as a Vick fan, it's me as a fan of all the QB's named, Young, Vick, McNabb. Why can't these QB's get any love?

I have to agree that Vick is very talented and is a good QB, I'd say his only problem is that he is a bit reckless with his health and gets hurt a little too much. Not to overshadow his great mechanics and mobility in the pocket. The Eagles knew Vick would/will get hurt so that's why Vince Young is there.
Oh, and I had to say that I've given up on McNabb. He's not who he used to be, he's lost all his accuracy. But Vick has great accuracy, I've have to say.

[NFLVICK7]

I agree with just about everything you said, and good point on the McNabb play against Carolina I had forgotten about it.

I think this whole protect the QB thing is total B.S. If a RB or a WR can be tackled by they legs so should QB's.

But if you are going to protect these guys it should be the same for everyone.

Btw I loved how Keyshaun, T.J, C.C, Coach, and Berman all stood up for Vick. It was awesome.

Dilfer is just Jealous of Vick's talent, and still thinks he was more than a game manager at QB. Talking about looking down the gun Barrel and getting popped. Well if it were Brady getting popped it would be a flag and the commentator would be saying how dirty and cheap it was. Dilfer bad mouths any QB who is athletic and can run at all. In my mind he doesn't see Vick as a true QB. Steve Young just hates in general how the QB's are babied which i agree with, but if the NFL is going to baby them, then Vick should be treated the same.

Brady gets his knee busted and a rule gets changed, Vick gets destroyed on a weekly basis by late hits and people say he has to stay in he pocket more, or he holds the ball too long. BULL SHIT. A late hit is a late hit regard less of how long you hold the ball.

This isn't just me as a Vick fan, it's me as a fan of all the QB's named, Young, Vick, McNabb. Why can't these QB's get any love?

I have to agree that Vick is very talented and is a good QB, I'd say his only problem is that he is a bit reckless with his health and gets hurt a little too much. Not to overshadow his great mechanics and mobility in the pocket. The Eagles knew Vick would/will get hurt so that's why Vince Young is there.
Oh, and I had to say that I've given up on McNabb. He's not who he used to be, he's lost all his accuracy. But Vick has great accuracy, I've have to say.

He's been in the damn pocket the last two weeks he's been hurt. Has nothing to do with him being reckless in this case.

Second Dont start Sh** talking McNabb. His numbers the last two weeks have been good, Is it his fault the D gave up 20 points the second half?, or his fault they gave it to Toby instead of Ap, or his fault Toby got stuffed? Yea thats totally McNabb's fault. He's aslo been under duress 30 % of his throws. He was never Manning accurate but to say the 0-3 start is his fault is bogus. People need to stop trying to make his a scape goat for everything. What you going to do? Play Ponder? The guy who shouldn't have been drafted till the 2nd or third round? People act like McNabb has played bad, he hasn't. Stop blaming him for the teams mistakes. Their Oline is old as hell, there D is getting old, they have no number 1 WR. Damn man. I saw it while he was here in Philly fans being non appreciative for all he did for the Eagles. Maybe if the D covered Calvin Johnson they would have won.

[BigDaddyCool]

First off let me start with McNabb. NFLVICK7 makes some good points about the situation that McNabb finds himself in right now.

The OL has been underperforming and the D hasn't been living up to their own potential. In Week 1 the Vikes had a 17-7 lead at halftime. It wasn't just that the Chargers were able to come back to win 24-17, but that the OL didn't give McNabb enough protection. For that matter, why wasn't the D able to stop Phillip Rivers or Mike Tolbert? Week 2 the Vikes had a 17-0 lead and they wind up losing 24-20. How is it McNabbs fault for what the defense does? When was the last time you saw a QB play defense? Not since the 1940's or even the 50's when they played both ways was a QB responsible for what happened on defense!!! I mean McNabb is good, but it's not like he's playing QB at one end of the field and FS at the other like Sammy Baugh used to. Week 3 against the Lions - same s#!t, different week. A 20-0 lead at halftime and they lose 26-23 in OT - TO THE LIONS!!!!!!!!

What amazes me is how people can hold a QB responsible for the play of their defense. There is only so much that a QB can not only do, but that he is responsible for. I mean look at the game last night. Tony Romo was beside himself at several points against the 'Skins. I mean how many screwed up snaps did he have to deal with last night? How much traffic did he have to direct because his receivers were playing like their heads were up their rear ends? It seemed like before every snap Romo had to tell his receivers what to do outside the huddle because they were either in the wrong place or they just didn't know what to do.

One of the big problems that McNabb has to deal with is that he suffers from what I call "Jim Everett Syndrome". Let me explain what I mean. Everett was developing into a great QB for the Rams in the late 80's, and in 1989 things were starting to come together for them. That is until they met the 49ers in the NFC Title game and the wheels fell off the wagon. The game itself was a blowout but what Everett is remembered for is tripping over his own feet dropping back to pass and basically sacking himself. This was the beginning of the "happy feet" phase of his career and everything went downhill from there.

So where is McNabb's "happy feet" moment? That 4th quarter drive in Super Bowl XXXIX that took 3:52 off the clock and left 1:55 in the game. The Eagles didn't go to a no-huddle offense to try and conserve the clock. Most of the people watching the game, including Cris Collinsworth and Troy Aikman, put the blame on McNabb for Andy Reid's calls. Neither of them could understand why McNabb wasn't acting with a "sense of urgency" in that situation, and ever since them McNabb has a reputation - undeserved I think, for being "soft" much in the same way that some people thought about Everett. In reality, McNabb's #1 receiver is in Seattle and the Vikings D forgets how to play football in the second half.

OK now back to Vick...

My question is this - where was the Eagles defense when Vick was taking all of these shots? I mean were they not paying attention to what was happening? I don't understand why when something like this happens to a team's QB that that teams defense doesn't immediately target the opposing QB in retaliation. I know that some of you might ask what that might solve and that you risk penalties and the game if you don't keep your cool. But I say that it sends everyone in the league a message that you will not take this and that you will stand up for your boys. I'll give you an example from my personal experience as to how this might work. Now granted this happened back when I was in Middle School and it was 7-on-7 Flag Football in a CYO league. But we still played the game without pads and without helmets. Hell, we weren't even allowed to wear cups because the league said that it was an "unfair advantage".

So we were playing this one team in a close game and up to a certain point it had been a hard clean game. That was until one of their guys applied his forearm to the face of one of my teammates. Remember - we were not wearing helmets which meant that our faces were not protected, and there were rules about blows to the face - not that those rules were ever enforced. Anyway, this dip-wad opened a cut above my teammates right eye that was so bad, he came to the sidelines crying with blood pouring down his face, and he had to have stitches put in right there on the sidelines. What really pissed me off was that we all saw it happen and that it happened right in front of the Ref - and he never pulled out his flag. This a-hole had committed a major penalty which caused an injury and it was never called. Not only was my teammate hurt but because of the stitches that he received, he then was not allowed to re-enter the game which put us a man down.

So I took it upon myself to issue a little payback - within the rules of course. But since I was only playing Special Teams at the time I had to wait for my chance - and on a kickoff I got it. It just so happened that this douche was on their kickoff return team, and he was right in my lane. So when I was presented with the opportunity I hit him as hard and as clean as I could - and knocked him backwards and on his ass. Trust me, he was seeing stars for a few minutes after that hit. For the rest of the game he kept his arms down and we had no more trouble out of him. Message received and understood.

So I ask the question again - where was the Eagle defense on Sunday? Why were they not targeting Eli Manning for destruction the same as the Giant defense was targeting Vick? Where was the message that says "were coming after Eli if you keep this crap up"? Or better yet, where was the offensive line when this was going on? Why were they not issuing some payback on the Giants D themselves? Now I know some of you might say that that wouldn't solve anything and that things would only escalate. Well consider who would be at fault if that happened. It wouldn't be the Eagles fault or honestly even the Giants fault - that would be on the Ref's shoulders for not calling the penalties. If the Ref had just called a 15-yard Personal Foul the first time Vick was hit late, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The message would have been sent and things would not have gotten out of hand because the refs would have maintained control of the game.

Now some might say that the best revenge is to beat the other team on the scoreboard. Sometimes that works and sometimes that doesn't. If you win on the scoreboard and your starting QB is out for the year then what have you really gained? You may have won the game but how do you avoid your entire team being labeled as "soft" because they didn't get some payback for their QB? And what does that say to the QB about how his teammates feel about him if they are not willing to stand up for him? How do you think that effects the locker room? How do you think that effects how the team is perceived both in and out of Philadelphia? Do you not think that the Eagles are getting savaged on talk radio right now? I mean yeah people are going to say that Vick should stop whining, but there have got to be some callers out there who are wondering why his teammates did not stick up for him on Sunday. Moreover what does this say about what the re-match in New Jersey is going to be like?

If the refs are not going to call these penalties and the league is not going to issue fines, then it is left up to the players to become on-field vigilantes - and seriously, who really wants to see that happen?

[NFLVICK7]

I agree with you 100%.

The thing with McNabb too is he was victim of his own success. He took teams that had no business being in the playoffs to NFC title games. I dont give a damn what that racist Mother F**cker Rush Limbaugh says. He was a huge part of it.So when a far superior team won they said he choked. Too bad he was throwing to guys who aren't even in the league anymore. The year he had a SB contender they were 3 points away, then that team fell apart. So he is unfairly labeled a choker. He did a lot with absolutely nothing. Then he got bitten by injuries.

I always wished him and T.O never had that falling out. They could have been great and won multiple titles. I love T.O and Mcnabb, and man that would have been great. Even here in Philly fans don't appreciate what he did. The man always took the high road, despite being booed by his own fans all the time. It's said really. I still rock my Eagles McNabb Jersey.







I have a feeling Vick is going to start taking matters into his own hands. Maybe challenging a defender to a fight, or shoving match with them. But his team should stand up for him. Vick puts himself on the line. People say hes irresponsible and reckless. The man is just playing the game the only way he can, but fighting for every inch, and leaving it all out there. He hates giving away plays, which is way he fights to avoid sacks. How can these idiot annalists like Hodge and Dilfer who always seem to hate on Qb's who can run bash the man for giving it his all? I love that about Michael. He's going to do what he has to for the team. How can you fault that?

Comes down to the refs needing to protect all Qb's the same, or the league scraps the protect the QB's like they are gods rule. Which I'd love. Let them be hit like everyone else. But if not, make it equal.

[Danchat]

I agree with you 100%.

The thing with McNabb too is he was victim of his own success. He took teams that had no business being in the playoffs to NFC title games. I dont give a damn what that racist Mother F**cker Rush Limbaugh says. He was a huge part of it.So when a far superior team won they said he choked. Too bad he was throwing to guys who aren't even in the league anymore. The year he had a SB contender they were 3 points away, then that team fell apart. So he is unfairly labeled a choker. He did a lot with absolutely nothing. Then he got bitten by injuries.

I always wished him and T.O never had that falling out. They could have been great and won multiple titles. I love T.O and Mcnabb, and man that would have been great. Even here in Philly fans don't appreciate what he did. The man always took the high road, despite being booed by his own fans all the time. It's said really. I still rock my Eagles McNabb Jersey.







I have a feeling Vick is going to start taking matters into his own hands. Maybe challenging a defender to a fight, or shoving match with them. But his team should stand up for him. Vick puts himself on the line. People say hes irresponsible and reckless. The man is just playing the game the only way he can, but fighting for every inch, and leaving it all out there. He hates giving away plays, which is way he fights to avoid sacks. How can these idiot annalists like Hodge and Dilfer who always seem to hate on Qb's who can run bash the man for giving it his all? I love that about Michael. He's going to do what he has to for the team. How can you fault that?

Comes down to the refs needing to protect all Qb's the same, or the league scraps the protect the QB's like they are gods rule. Which I'd love. Let them be hit like everyone else. But if not, make it equal.

I want to talk some more McNabb right now. I sent in a question to the vikings' website to their critic who puts these questions into the newspaper.
I asked about Bernard Berrian's terrible season so far, catching just 1 pass and being in on 85% of the downs. Here's what the critic had to say:

With that being said, I disagree with most of what you wrote. Why do you think it's "safe to say" that Berrian is not a good receiver just because he has just one catch this season? I see a QB who consistently throws inaccurately to our WRs. It's hard to blame Berrian for not producing up the level of a starting WR when he's not being given fair chances. Today against Detroit in the 4th quarter, he had at least two steps on his defender and McNabb overthrew him. Had McNabb put that throw on the money, it would've been a TD and you never would've sent this email. Same story in San Diego in Week 1. Berrian had his guy beat for a TD late in the game for the game-winning score, but McNabb underthrew him. I saw another pass from McNabb to Berrian today that bounced before it got to him and the same thing happened last week at home to Tampa. Your criticism of Berrian doesn't make sense to me. I think you're placing blame on the wrong person.

I still believe Berrian is a joke, but this critic was very quick to throw the blame on McNabb.
I couldn't believe that he never mentioned our O-line. It's not great, I'll say that. We have a good inner 3 guards and center, but our tackles are very underachieving. They give up the sacks.
McNabb hasn't been good so far, and you can blame the O-line. But it's time for the test. Kansas City isn't very good, and McNabb should pick apart their secondary, but what I'm looking for is him throwing accurate passes on 3rd down and in the second half. He is by far the worst QB at accuracy on 3rd down this year. (statistically)
On one last note, I personally think that the O-line is the most important position in football. Even before the QB.

[NFLVICK7]

Berrian is a joke. He sucked last year too.

As for being inaccurate McNabb was never a 65 comp pct guy anyway. Combine that with a bad Oline how can he be accurate if he can't stop into his throws or throw without being hit? Third downs team know you have to pass so they blitz, with a bad oline McNabb cant throw. Look at Brady for example. Hit him two or three times, and he is erratic for the rest of the game. But most of the time his oline doesn't let him be touched, and the fact that most of his passes aren't deep, and the routes take no time to develop. protect the man and he'll shred defenses.

I kno McNabb tends to lock the front foot at times and throw one in the dirt, but it wasn't a huge problem in philly. Give him time to throw and he'll be fine. He hasn't played bad this year apart from week one. Ponder certainly isn't going to do any better, he's never going to be a good QB in the league.

Sure McNabb isn't the best with accuracy, but he never was, he always made it work tho. They had a chance to win all 3 games this year, and if they did and were 3-0 would this discussion be taking place? No, People want a scape goat and like always its McNabb. Always an excuse for when Brady or Manning have a terrible game and lose, but McNabb plays pretty good in a loss and gets all the blame. People need to get they heads outa they A**.

How about they start running it, and using PA to hit Hervin deep, McNabb can still fling the ball as far as anyone. That is if Harvin doesn't have a migraine.

[Danchat]

Berrian is a joke. He sucked last year too.

I'm glad we agree on that. Michael Jenkins is another story, with great hands and route running. He's the guy who can get open and catch the ball on 3rd downs.

I kno McNabb tends to lock the front foot at times and throw one in the dirt, but it wasn't a huge problem in philly. Give him time to throw and he'll be fine. He hasn't played bad this year apart from week one. Ponder certainly isn't going to do any better, he's never going to be a good QB in the league

I wouldn't say that Ponder is potentially a failure, but we're better off starting McNabb anyways. Reasons to start McNabb:
1: He's a veteran, more experienced and wiser
2: It'd be better if he took an injury
3: We're paying him $5M (let's not waste it that fast....)
Anyways, we'll see if McNabb can do better this Sunday.
P.S. You like Joe Webb, right? Do you think the Vikings would be better off starting him?