Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

Modifying Madden 08.
jose21crisis
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Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

Postby jose21crisis » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:21 pm

As we know, a fair amount of teams in the NFL don't use fullbacks right now. They tend to use Tight Ends skilled on lead blocking, with very few teams actually having dedicated fullbacks. New England, with James Develin, Pittsburgh, with Roosevelt Nix, and San Francisco, with Kyle Juszczyk, come to mind ... well ... YMMV. However, Madden 08 enforces a team to have 1 player with the Fullback position tag, something that the newer games don't enforce. You can just put a TE as a fullback in the depth chart and Madden 19 isn't going to complain.

So, I decided to do some searching around to locate the tables that dictate how many players are asked on a roster, and I located them on the very useful file number 11 of the DBTemplates.dat file. There are 3 tables in fact, and the 3 of them are important. Those are DRPS (According to the definitions that come with the Madden DB Editor, Depth Chart Info), PLPS (Positional Info) and POSG (Game Info ... I guess, the definitions don't get that far). These tables hold a) Minimum number of players at the position, b) Position Priority, for Free Agency purposes (Key here), c) Number of players required for a game to start. Point c here is what we need to make fullbacks, the position tag not the depth chart position, irrelevant for teams that don't have or want to have a fullback.

However, there are some complications. The first is that these tables are not built equal. For instance, DRPS asks for, for a minimum ...
(These lists will be on spoilers, as to make a possibly huge post be a tad smaller)
Spoiler:
  • 2 QBs
  • 1 HB
  • 1 FB
  • 3 WRs
  • 1 TE
  • 2 OTs
  • 2 Gs
  • 1 C
  • 2 DEs
  • 2 DTs (Madden is well known for hating 3-4 schemes)
  • 2 OLBs
  • 1 MLB
  • 2 CBs
  • 1 FS
  • 1 SS
  • 1 K
  • 1 P

... whereas PLPS asks for ...
Spoiler:
  • 1 QB
  • 1 HB
  • 1 FB
  • 3 WRs
  • 1 TE
  • 1 LT
  • 1 LG
  • 1 C
  • 1 RG
  • 1 RT
  • 1 LE
  • 1 RE
  • 2 DTs
  • 1 LOLB
  • 1 MLB
  • 1 ROLB
  • 2 CBs
  • 1 FS
  • 1 SS
  • 1 K
  • 1 P

... and POSG asks for ...
Spoiler:
  • 1 QB
  • 2 RBs
  • 3 WRs
  • 1 TE
  • 5 OLs
  • 4 DLs
  • 3 LBs
  • 4 DBs
  • 1 K
  • 1 P


That's the "Minimum" players. Following that, we have the "Required" players. which on DRPS are...
Spoiler:
  • 2 QBs
  • 3 HBs
  • 1 FB
  • 4 WRs
  • 2 TEs
  • 4 OTs
  • 4 Gs
  • 2 Cs
  • 4 DEs
  • 3 DTs
  • 4 OLBs
  • 2 MLBs
  • 4 CBs
  • 2 FSs
  • 2 SSs
  • 1 K
  • 1 P

... whereas PLPS asks for ...
Spoiler:
  • 2 QB
  • 3 HBs
  • 1 FB
  • 4 WRs
  • 2 TEs
  • 2 LTs
  • 2 LGs
  • 2 Cs
  • 2 RGs
  • 2 RTs
  • 2 LEs
  • 2 REs
  • 3 DTs
  • 2 LOLBs
  • 2 MLBs
  • 2 ROLBs
  • 4 CBs
  • 2 FSs
  • 2 SSs
  • 1 K
  • 1 P

... and POSG asks for ...
Spoiler:
  • 2 QB
  • 4 RBs
  • 4 WRs
  • 2 TE
  • 10 OLs
  • 7 DLs
  • 6 LBs
  • 8 DBs
  • 1 K
  • 1 P


Looking at what these tables ask for, I can say that ...
  • DRPS is the table used in the Roster Management > Breakdown section. It is the exact requirements.
  • PLPS is probably the one that is used for Depth Chart purposes, but I can't confirm.
  • POSG could be the one used on Owner Mode, when determining Positional OVR.

Now, what I wanted to arrive, following ALL that is the next set of changes.
  • Removing fullbacks as an OBLIGATORY position, not as a depth chart position. Teams still have designated tight ends to play lead blocker.
  • Only make CB#1 and CB#2 the starting CB positions. Reason? Allow the starting FS or SS to move to CB#3 or CB#4 position, generating Big Nickel or Big Dime sets, which can't be produced by the CPU.
  • Only make DT#1 the starting DT position. Reason? Allow a starting DE to be DT#2 for 3-4 teams, so that he appears as an interior pass rusher in Nickel 2-4-5 and Dime 4-1-6 sets.

Those would be my proposed changes. The first one seems fairly easy to achieve, and I'll test it tonight. Just making the "Required" and "Minimum" players be 0 for fullbacks AND lowering the priority of fullbacks, then look around to see how many teams end up with fullbacks after simming an offseason. In theory, not all teams should have fullbacks. Some may have 2, but I will consider this a success if some teams ignore the FB position.

The other 2 are more complicated. CB#3 and CB#4 are "Starters", which they shouldn't be. Well ... your milage may vary on the CB#3, since now a days Nickel is the base defense for everyone except New England (Dime-based) and Cleveland (Base-based, if that makes sense), similar to DT#2 (Your mileage may vary for 4-3 teams naturally, but they shouldn't be a huge issue really). I need to find a way to make CB#3, CB#4 and DT#2 non starters, so that actual starters can move to those positions.
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Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

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jose21crisis
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Re: Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

Postby jose21crisis » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:47 pm

Ok, I'm starting to realize a reason why this wasn't tried before (Not necessarily known, but I'll mention it). The game crashes randomly when using the new DB_Templates.db when adjusted to "Fullbacks are optional". I'll keep testing and editing this post.
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Re: Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

Postby RevanFan » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:41 pm

I only knew about DRPS, which is modified in the FF/FI Mod. I didn't know anything about the other tables.

I'll be following your progress.
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Re: Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

Postby Austinmario13 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:21 am

RevanFan wrote:I only knew about DRPS, which is modified in the FF/FI Mod. I didn't know anything about the other tables.

I'll be following your progress.

Pressure's on now... :oops:

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Re: Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

Postby BUS36 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:50 am

If you haven't noticed that some teams ( Rams, Steelers and Ravens ..Off the top of my head), list some of their top Ends as DT s..Example:Steelers' Cam Heyward is listed actually as a DT but plays RE but also moves in their Dime and Nickle packages as a DT. Reason was the when the Pro Bowl balloting comes up..many of the Edge rushers and OLBs are being built into the Defensive End category. Even some OLBs in Madden are being listed as DE but in their official team rosters as a OLB and vice a versa.
I think that what should have been done is all the players that play certain group positions just be labeled as one. ( like in the NZA's Editor 2.0)..QB, RB,TE,WR,OL,DL,LB,DB,K and P.
There is more versatility in positions..
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jose21crisis
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Re: Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

Postby jose21crisis » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:07 pm

Ok, some progress here. It's limited but progress is progress. So, I got this to work and the Fullback position is not a requirement. You can start a game without a fullback and the game won't yell. But there are problems. Whenever the AI needs to sign a Free Agent, they will sign him, and the game will promptly crash. Apparently Madden's AI management can't handle roster without the Fullback requirements.

RevanFan wrote:I only knew about DRPS, which is modified in the FF/FI Mod. I didn't know anything about the other tables.

I'll be following your progress.

I wonder, was modified on that table?
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Re: Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

Postby RevanFan » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:24 pm

jose21crisis wrote:I wonder, was modified on that table?

Defensive tackle requirement was changed to 2. Tackle and Guard changed to 3. Defensive end changed to 3. Running back changed to 2. Outside linebacker changed to 3. I think that's mostly it. Some complimentary changes were made to the minimums as well.
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Re: Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

Postby adoreizi » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:52 pm

Very interesting idea. Keep up the good progress! I’m definitely interested if you get it to work.

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Re: Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

Postby Theov » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:05 am

This is cool!
I worked around this problem by switching a TE to FB.

So I now actually carry 2 fullbacks. Once converted lineman/TE for blocking, one converted HB for catching/running.

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Re: Removing Fullbacks as a starting position and other Roster changes

Postby jose21crisis » Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:49 pm

I've been unable to make more progress on this. Mostly because I didn't have a lot of time to work with. So, I think I'll turn this into "Jose21crisis' Data Research post". I'll post a BUNCH of info I can find in the game files. The first info I'll post is money/salary related.

The first is what I found in the SAYR table from DB_TEMPLATES file 11. This one has the Salary Cap Increases on a year-per-year basis on franchise mode. The cap increases 12% on year 1, 16% in year 2, 12% in year 3, and on year 4 onwards it increases by 8% until franchise mode ends. Altering this file could create more realistic salary caps on franchise play.

Next up, the FDRN table on the StreamedData.db file. This one is interesting, because I think it defines how big contracts will be for draft picks. However, I don't quite get it. The second column is called DRND, which is the draft round (Which I know, because I've seen this value go from 0 to 6 in other tables, meaning the round). This one goes from 0 to 48. This is the one that troubles me, because I can't make much sense of it. The other 2 are far less troubling. The first column is SCPC, the percentage of the salary cap that will go into the contract. This one could be the reason why we see draftees with hilariously huge contracts without using NZA's editor. The top row has a SCPC value of 12.62, which (If I understand this info right) means that 1st round picks will get allocated 12.62% of the entirety of the salary cap for his contract.

3rd, we get the very interesting, but (to me) heavily confusing TREP table from file 11. This one defines the increases and decreases in team prestige. It is confusing because it refers to a bunch of events that I have been able to find, which are on the TETP table. There are some SERIOUS decreases (To the tune of -250 for ... something ... don't know) along with big increases (200) and some smaller in betweens.

Finally, the PLPS/DRPS/POSG set of tables. These tables have 3 columns that I'm focusing on, and could possibly fix the stupid AI during the FA/Draft. Those columns are PPSG, PPDF and PPPS. I can't determine exactly what each of these ones do, but what I THINK they mean is this: PPSG is the player priority to start a game (QBs, HBs and FBs have this value the highest), PPDF is the player priority when looking for one in the draft or free agency (WRs, CBs, HBs and LEs have this the highest) and PPPS .... well, I can't determine this one, I just know that QBs, HBs and WRs have this one the highest.

Well, that's about it for now.
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