Some game mechanic findings

Hamburglar
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Some game mechanic findings

Postby Hamburglar » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:19 pm

I just wanted to share various game mechanics that I haven't see posted here before:

- Agility alone doesn't determine the break tackle animations an RB uses. It's a combination of Agility, Break Tackle and Weight/Height ratio. Bigger (250+) RB's just run over people even with 99 agility and BTK, smaller ones (250-) use the "elusive" type moves with the same stats.

- D Line moves: The "rip" move is assigned to Right Stick Up, by default and can't be changed (that I know of). The downside is, this is tangled up with "Commit pass" so you'll tell your defense to watch for the pass if you do the move after the snap. The upside is that it's much much higher percentage and quicker than the other rushing moves. If I know for sure it's going to be a run, I'll right stick down then up quickly so my defense commits to the run and I do the Rip move at the same time.

- O Line moves: As you're engaging a blocker on a run, left trigger will do a chopping/holding sort of move. I'm not sure exactly what it's called, but your OLineman basically grabs the shoulders of the dude in front of him and then just falls, dragging his victim to the side. I've never seen the CPU do the move. Like the DLine Rip move, it's very high percentage and you can use it to basically remove a defender for the remainder of the play, plus the RB gets a hurdle if they run over you.

- O Line moves 2: Probably common knowledge but Right stick up is a power shove. While not as high percentage as the other move, it's a great way to take out defenders and get lots of pancake stats, which as far as I can tell, is what determines OL progression.

- There are 2 Off. formations that use the same name. Singleback-Normal. I think the 2nd one is "Normal Slot" but the editor can't read the end of the name so it treats them as the same formation and bugs out: You can't edit or remove plays from this formation or delete it once you've added them. The only way around it that I've found is to Rename the formation to something else. That will unlock the plays so you can edit/remove them and/or remove the formation.

- OL Progression: RBK will only go up for the first couple of seasons of an Olinemens career, then it stops. PBK will continue to go up. Therefore, it makes sense to draft better run blockers than pass blockers since their potential stat ceiling is greater.

- Running routes as a receiver is great fun and you can call for the ball at any time with Left Trigger. However, you're at the mercy of the CPU QB and if he's a scrambler, he'll just try and run it instead of passing to you, so manually running routes works better with a pocket QB.

- Routes 2: Curl routes are probably the highest percentage pass you can make against man coverage, regardless of difficulty. Using twin sets, or motioning an WR will tell you if CB's are in man and you can hot-route to a Curl for an easy completion

That's about all I have off the top of my head. I'll update this as learn or remember more of them. Thanks!

Some game mechanic findings

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jose21crisis
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Re: Some game mechanic findings

Postby jose21crisis » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:05 pm

Some of my comments on this:
Hamburglar wrote:- O Line moves: As you're engaging a blocker on a run, left trigger will do a chopping/holding sort of move. I'm not sure exactly what it's called, but your OLineman basically grabs the shoulders of the dude in front of him and then just falls, dragging his victim to the side. I've never seen the CPU do the move. Like the DLine Rip move, it's very high percentage and you can use it to basically remove a defender for the remainder of the play, plus the RB gets a hurdle if they run over you.

That move is, effectively, a hold. You can execute it when you are a blocker, and it pretty much takes down whoever you are engaged. However, it will get you called for holding eventually.
Hamburglar wrote:- O Line moves 2: Probably common knowledge but Right stick up is a power shove. While not as high percentage as the other move, it's a great way to take out defenders and get lots of pancake stats, which as far as I can tell, is what determines OL progression.

I'd say this is most useful for pulling linemen and fullbacks. There is also a "Turn Block" command. At least on the PC, it is Shift + Left or Shift + Right. And it turns the block, which makes it harder for the defender to get to the ball carrier.
Hamburglar wrote:- There are 2 Off. formations that use the same name. Singleback-Normal. I think the 2nd one is "Normal Slot" but the editor can't read the end of the name so it treats them as the same formation and bugs out: You can't edit or remove plays from this formation or delete it once you've added them. The only way around it that I've found is to Rename the formation to something else. That will unlock the plays so you can edit/remove them and/or remove the formation.

I think the same happens with the Shotgun-Normal and Shotgun-Normal Slot. Those 2 formations are different BTW. The "Normal" formation has the X receiver off the line of scrimmage, and the Slot receiver is on the line. The "Normal Slot" is the other way around, Slot off the line, X on the line.
Hamburglar wrote:- Routes 2: Curl routes are probably the highest percentage pass you can make against man coverage, regardless of difficulty. Using twin sets, or motioning an WR will tell you if CB's are in man and you can hot-route to a Curl for an easy completion

The only way to stop a receiver running a curl route is that the corner that's covering him is Shutdown. Those guys read that route perfectly. Or All-Madden. Or running Cover 2.

Hamburglar
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Re: Some game mechanic findings

Postby Hamburglar » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:23 pm

Thanks for your input! Anything else you can add would be great.

jose21crisis wrote:Some of my comments on this:
That move is, effectively, a hold. You can execute it when you are a blocker, and it pretty much takes down whoever you are engaged. However, it will get you called for holding eventually.


I haven't noticed as I usually have holding penalties turned right down haha. I'm a rotten cheat!

I'd say this is most useful for pulling linemen and fullbacks. There is also a "Turn Block" command. At least on the PC, it is Shift + Left or Shift + Right. And it turns the block, which makes it harder for the defender to get to the ball carrier.


Yeah as I'm starting to play other positions than just QB/RB, I'm learning a lot of new moves like these - the game is actually much more detailed than it seems at first glance. I just wish the CPU used them more often to create better running lanes. A little bonus is it's made the "trench fight" training camp game a lot better.

I think the same happens with the Shotgun-Normal and Shotgun-Normal Slot. Those 2 formations are different BTW. The "Normal" formation has the X receiver off the line of scrimmage, and the Slot receiver is on the line. The "Normal Slot" is the other way around, Slot off the line, X on the line.


That makes sense. I noticed they were technically separate formations with different WR's on the line but I think it's the naming that makes it glitch out. You might wonder why I even bother with the stock playbook editor, but it's a good way to build basic play books before adding the frills with Pacfans editor. You can make a running play in 30 seconds with the stock editor without having to manually figure out QB handoffs etc, then you can use the more complex editor to add the fancy bits. Plus, you can use "add plays" to copy plays you like from the stock playbooks instead of starting from scratch.

That said, if you know a way to make the audible and formation shift lists visible while using custom playbooks, I'd love to hear it. You get used to it after a while but it'd be nice to see them on screen.

The only way to stop a receiver running a curl route is that the corner that's covering him is Shutdown. Those guys read that route perfectly. Or All-Madden. Or running Cover 2.


You're not wrong. I find quick outs with slot recievers are money too but the curl is solid gold. It's my go-to 1st down play if they're in Man coverage.

jose21crisis
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Re: Some game mechanic findings

Postby jose21crisis » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:10 pm

jose21crisis wrote:
Hamburglar wrote:- O Line moves 2: Probably common knowledge but Right stick up is a power shove. While not as high percentage as the other move, it's a great way to take out defenders and get lots of pancake stats, which as far as I can tell, is what determines OL progression.

I'd say this is most useful for pulling linemen and fullbacks. There is also a "Turn Block" command. At least on the PC, it is Shift + Left or Shift + Right. And it turns the block, which makes it harder for the defender to get to the ball carrier.

Follow up to this: I decided to start using the Lead Blocker controls a bit more during running plays. Just for fun, I decided to call a Shotgun run (Which normally fails miserably). I took control of my center, and on the snap, I pancaked the DT in front if him. The run went for about 10 yards before Le'Veon Bell got brought down. That's a way to improve the running game, specially Gun and Draw runs.

Someone should eventually write down what the Right Stick commands/SHIFT modifiers do for every position. For example, during passing plays, using the Right Stick/SHIFT modifiers either moves the QB Vision Cone (If you have QB Vision On that is) OR triggers the Playmaker controls, which makes your QB tell the closest WR to change direction. It can be useful if you play like Russell Wilson and run around in the backfield until someone gets open.

Theov
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Re: Some game mechanic findings

Postby Theov » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:48 am

I did notice that passblocking progresses more than runblocking, are you sure it's because he's in the early stage of his career?
So yeah, try to find the guys that already have a good runblocking and STR stat. But TBH, I thought it was because of the blocking stats they put up, not so much how far they are in their careers.

Hamburglar
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Re: Some game mechanic findings

Postby Hamburglar » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:21 pm

Theov wrote:I did notice that passblocking progresses more than runblocking, are you sure it's because he's in the early stage of his career?
So yeah, try to find the guys that already have a good runblocking and STR stat. But TBH, I thought it was because of the blocking stats they put up, not so much how far they are in their careers.


Hey, I'm not sure what the mechanism for it is but it definitely stops increasing after a couple of years in the league. So after a certain stage, despite the same level of play, they just stop gaining RBK while PBK continues to 99. It might be a product of age or career length, I'm not sure. AFAIK, the only stats that affect OLine progression are pancakes and sacks allowed. Even with 100 pancakes and no sacks, RBK will still stop increasing after a short while. It's not an exact figure, but it seems like the upper limit is about +10 RBK over what they come drafted with.

So yes, with this in mind, it's ultimately better in the long run to draft high RBK and low PBK in linemen you're looking to develop.

Hamburglar
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Re: Some game mechanic findings

Postby Hamburglar » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:32 pm

jose21crisis wrote:
jose21crisis wrote:
Hamburglar wrote:- O Line moves 2: Probably common knowledge but Right stick up is a power shove. While not as high percentage as the other move, it's a great way to take out defenders and get lots of pancake stats, which as far as I can tell, is what determines OL progression.

I'd say this is most useful for pulling linemen and fullbacks. There is also a "Turn Block" command. At least on the PC, it is Shift + Left or Shift + Right. And it turns the block, which makes it harder for the defender to get to the ball carrier.

Follow up to this: I decided to start using the Lead Blocker controls a bit more during running plays. Just for fun, I decided to call a Shotgun run (Which normally fails miserably). I took control of my center, and on the snap, I pancaked the DT in front if him. The run went for about 10 yards before Le'Veon Bell got brought down. That's a way to improve the running game, specially Gun and Draw runs.

Someone should eventually write down what the Right Stick commands/SHIFT modifiers do for every position. For example, during passing plays, using the Right Stick/SHIFT modifiers either moves the QB Vision Cone (If you have QB Vision On that is) OR triggers the Playmaker controls, which makes your QB tell the closest WR to change direction. It can be useful if you play like Russell Wilson and run around in the backfield until someone gets open.


That would be cool. Do you play with keyboard? I'm using a gamepad so might be slightly different. It's worth adding, that as a DT using the Rip (right stick up) move, if you hit it just before you engage the blocker, you can sometimes just swish right past them like a bull fighter. It's a super fast way to the QB but because the lines engage pretty much straight away, it's better used by strong linebackers to get around blocking RB's in the back field. The timing is tricky but it's magic.

It's great fun playing the blockers, especially with the slow-mo effect on blocks and camera changes :) I usually control the pulling guard or FB. There's a pitch running play out of Split Backs - Normal called Short Toss (I think) which gets you wide of the line with a Guard and FB down field blocking for you. It's one of my money running plays. I even made a modified version of it where both the QB and the RB have a short delay (0.5) seconds to allow the blocks to set up. Because the defenders always attack the ball carrier on running plays, they tend to run towards the QB first. He sends a long pitch to the RB off the edge and you're running free. Pitch plays are my favorite runs now, though Counters are usually really good too.


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