Field Goal Holder Idea

[Madden09User]

I started on PS1 Madden, and one of John's commentaries starts with "One thing that drives me crazy out there..." I'll tell you one thing that although it's minor, it drives me crazy!

Madden (I believe to this day) has kept an outdated way of handling special teams. The field goal holder is the backup QB, a practice that was largely phased out by 2000. For accuracy, I want to put the punter in as the holder. This can be done in game by moving the punter to the QB2 spot, but that's a tedious solution (and messes up the substitution if a QB1 gets hurt). I have some ideas on how to fix it permanently, but I don't have the know how yet. I'd like to get this out there and see if anyone knows how to tackle this.

Method 1: Coding in based on depth chart
If anyone can find where the holder is coded in, we should be able to fix it by making this depth chart change
I'm thinking the play has to be finding the holder by bringing in the backup QB (shown in the depth chart as position 0, depth chart 1). If we coded the field goal plays to look for the fourth QB instead and set the punter as QB4 in the depth chart (position 0, depth chart 3), he should show up. ... I don't know that we would have the control of putting a QB back in the spot though (ie. Tony Romo). Possibly by subbing the punter into one of the first 3 QB spots?

Method 2: Changing in the Playbook/Substitution
We should also be able to change this in the playbook/substitutions as well, but I know far less about this. Is there an overarching playbook/sub that would edit the special teams units for all 32 teams? Or would you need to do this team by team? ...I'm on a PS2 copy and it seems to be unforgiving about permanently subbing players, but I'm adding this method as a suggestion since it may work on PC.

Can't wait to solve this and unleash Brian Moorman's speed!

[datmanmadden59x]

Hi Madden09User,
I tried this idea a few weeks ago. I was not successful. I edited a playbook replacing the QB2 position in the FG formation with P1 using a DB editor. I was able to change the holder to P1 but the animation for the kicker was off with the kicker looking like he missed kicking the ball away from the football but the ball would still look liked it was kicked. I then changed the starting kicking position for the kicker so it looked like he hit the ball with his foot but eventually it led to Madden crashing. Making QB4 and QB5 position in a formation leads to QB3 on the field from the depth chart. Maybe changing the QB2 position to KOS or QB3 instead of P1 would work. You gave me an idea to try the QB3 position as QB2.

Eureka! I figured it out. After the edits, by changing the QB2 position to QB3 in the FG unit, I placed a punter at for QB3 on the depth chart and now we have punters as holders. Unfortunately when playing in game if QB1 gets hurt, then for the correct QB3 you would need to change the depth chart in game but only in that very game.

To do all this out:
Use a db editor like the Xtreme DB editor and select the custom playbook you want to use. Of course back up your original.
Going to the SETP table.
Find SETP 410. This is for fg and fg pass and run.
Find SETP 2643. This is for fake fg punt.
Change the dpos to 3 for the 3rd quarterback in the depth chart. Save.
Go to your depth chart in the in game roster editor. Change QB3 depth chart position as your punter.

Voila! Now you have a punter as your holder automatically on the FG unit. The other way to do this is to manually change your formation sub for the FG unit to the punter but this would not be automatic and would need to be done for each game.

Have fun everyone.

[Harry97]

I kind of like the old school element of having the backup QB as the holder. It's also good for fake field goals in that the holder can actually throw it deep if needed. That said, it's very cool that you guys are looking into how to get the punter as the holder. Great work!

[Madden09User]

Hi Madden09User,
I tried this idea a few weeks ago. I was not successful. I edited a playbook replacing the QB2 position in the FG formation with P1 using a DB editor. I was able to change the holder to P1 but the animation for the kicker was off with the kicker looking like he missed kicking the ball away from the football but the ball would still look liked it was kicked. I then changed the starting kicking position for the kicker so it looked like he hit the ball with his foot but eventually it led to Madden crashing. Making QB4 and QB5 position in a formation leads to QB3 on the field from the depth chart. Maybe changing the QB2 position to KOS or QB3 instead of P1 would work. You gave me an idea to try the QB3 position as QB2.

Eureka! I figured it out. After the edits, by changing the QB2 position to QB3 in FG unit, I placed a punter at for QB3 on the depth chart and now we have punters as holders. Unfortunately when playing in game if QB1 gets hurt, then for the correct QB3 you would need to change the depth chart in game but only in that very game.

To do all this out:
Use a db editor like the Xtreme DB editor and select the custom playbook you want to use. Of course back up your original.
Going to the SETP table.
Find SETP 410. This is for fg and fb pass and run.
Find SETP 2643. This is for fake fg punt.
Change the dpos to 3 for the 3rd quarterback in the depth chart. Save.
Go to your depth chart in the in game roster editor. Change QB3 depth chart position as your punter.

Voila! Now you have a punter as your holder automatically on the FG unit. The other way to do this is to manually change your formation sub for the FG unit to the punter but this would not be automatic and would need to be done for each game.

Have fun everyone.

Thanks datmanmadden! I'm glad I could be of (some) assistance.
The graphic you described with P1 as the holder sounds hilarious, though frustrating. This game never ceases to amaze me with the weird errors that can happen.
I want to see if I can replicate the QB4 error that you had on my PS2. That's interesting to me as well. I'm not sure why it would have a problem with that, as you can go all the way to WR7, but it's just one of those things no doubt.

Thank you so much for the GREAT information about where to find the specific files for kicking depth charts. I'm quite familiar with db files from roster editing, but I've never opened up the playbooks. It's on my to-do list to understand those better. ... Are you saying that every team's playbook will need to be custom to have this change?
I like your solution because having it a punter at QB3 instead of QB2 doesn't handcuff a team. I like to have 3 QBs when I build my rosters, but I know the real NFL now often only has 2 active QBs on game day. Even though Tom Tupa isn't walking through the door... haha

[Madden09User]

I kind of like the old school element of having the backup QB as the holder. It's also good for fake field goals in that the holder can actually throw it deep if needed. That said, it's very cool that you guys are looking into how to get the punter as the holder. Great work!

Thanks Harry97! Appreciate the support! I agree, it is cool to have the option of putting a QB there and teams have done it in the last 20 years, so it's in the realm of possibilities.

Madden kept another old school feature with the kickers. I actually had to look up why it is this way. The kickers have two different shoes. Some are the same basic color, but for most it's a drastic difference (one shoe is white and the kicking shoe is black). It used to be that kickers would wear two different shoes, and in the early days (70s I'm assuming) the kicking shoe was only available in black. The equipment that is available has changed of course.

I want to edit this to give the kickers the same color shoe for both feet, as it looks like many kickers did that in the time frame I'm working in. But then I looked at some of the older players on my version and lo and behold, Morten Andersen and John Kasay were still rocking two different colored shoes in the late 2000s! So like most things, it's not as simple as I had envisioned.

It was cool to learn that tidbit about kickers though and how much things have evolved, I had never known that before I started digging around in these games.

[Harry97]

I kind of like the old school element of having the backup QB as the holder. It's also good for fake field goals in that the holder can actually throw it deep if needed. That said, it's very cool that you guys are looking into how to get the punter as the holder. Great work!

Thanks Harry97! Appreciate the support! I agree, it is cool to have the option of putting a QB there and teams have done it in the last 20 years, so it's in the realm of possibilities.

Madden kept another old school feature with the kickers. I actually had to look up why it is this way. The kickers have two different shoes. Some are the same basic color, but for most it's a drastic difference (one shoe is white and the kicking shoe is black). It used to be that kickers would wear two different shoes, and in the early days (70s I'm assuming) the kicking shoe was only available in black. The equipment that is available has changed of course.

I want to edit this to give the kickers the same color shoe for both feet, as it looks like many kickers did that in the time frame I'm working in. But then I looked at some of the older players on my version and lo and behold, Morten Andersen and John Kasay were still rocking two different colored shoes in the late 2000s! So like most things, it's not as simple as I had envisioned.

It was cool to learn that tidbit about kickers though and how much things have evolved, I had never known that before I started digging around in these games.

Another tidbit about kickers was that they banned the use of single bar facemasks in 2004 but kickers who were still playing who had been wearing them all their career were allowed to wear them until the end of their careers, like Morten Andersen.

[datmanmadden59x]

Hey guys,
For all playbooks, you will need to make this change for QB3 to be the holder. If playing franchise then for the CPU the the QB3 will be QB or punter.
If you want to have QB2 back at holder when doing a fake fg just make a custom sub for the holder in the special teams formation. If the other team does not suspect it, then the QB holder can make a throw.

I think the reason, I can change the holder position to P1 is the Madden 08 always has a QB at holder so P1 just glitches the animation.

Tony Romo's fumble was in the 2006 NFC Wild Card game. So since 2006, no quarterbacks hold for a fg or xp.

[Austinmario13]

Hey guys,
For all playbooks, you will need to make this change for QB3 to be the holder. If playing franchise then for the CPU the the QB3 will be QB or punter.
If you want to have QB2 back at holder when doing a fake fg just make a custom sub for the holder in the special teams formation. If the other team does not suspect it, then the QB holder can make a throw.

I think the reason, I can change the holder position to P1 is the Madden 08 always has a QB at holder so P1 just glitches the animation.

Tony Romo's fumble was in the 2006 NFC Wild Card game. So since 2006, no quarterbacks hold for a fg or xp.

Luke McCown held fgs when he was with the saints (2013-2014). Matt Schaub held for the raiders in 2014.

Also idk why no one has mentioned this, but formations subs in franchise mode are permanent. So you could just sub a p for qb2 and it will stay that way.