Tom Brady's new extension

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superben21
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Re: Tom Brady's new extension

Postby superben21 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:19 pm

DrBrownsFan wrote:
superben21 wrote:
pleake17 wrote:Yep, getting paid millions to play a game mostly everyone can play. :roll:

Its not that easy lol

No but still, you shouldn't be paid millions of dollars every YEAR to play a GAME. In the old days, it was just a few hundred per game for the stars, and next to nothing for the rest. The players played not for the money, but for the love of the game. (By the way, I'm not 60, even though I sound like I am... I'm 17 lol)

The problem is your premise is wrong ;) It's not a game anymore. It's a profession. They don't get paid to enjoy themselves they get paid to be the best and nothing but the best. Sure I can run a 4.52 in the 40 (need to train and get under 4.5) however, there is no way I'm covering these guys in the pro's who are slower. Its not just hard work and determination. Its talent plus hard work. [I lack the hard work part :lol: ]

Anyway their "value/pay" in millions because thats what the market dictates. By paying for tickets and buying jerseys we are in-affect saying we value these players at incredible amounts.
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Re: Tom Brady's new extension

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Re: Tom Brady's new extension

Postby DarthViper3k » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:16 pm

pleake17 wrote:
DarthViper3k wrote:Besides... I can't feel sorry for for multimillionaires losing a million here and there

Yep, getting paid millions to play a game mostly everyone can play. :roll:


superben21 wrote:The problem is your premise is wrong ;) It's not a game anymore. It's a profession. They don't get paid to enjoy themselves they get paid to be the best and nothing but the best. Sure I can run a 4.52 in the 40 (need to train and get under 4.5) however, there is no way I'm covering these guys in the pro's who are slower. Its not just hard work and determination. Its talent plus hard work. [I lack the hard work part :lol: ]

Anyway their "value/pay" in millions because thats what the market dictates. By paying for tickets and buying jerseys we are in-affect saying we value these players at incredible amounts.


Even with the premise of football as a profession is still wrong. Why?... b/c its still a far better job than what 80% of americans do for a living. It's still a job they enjoy.. its still a job that they don't absolutely hate..... while most of american is earing a shit wage for jobs they hate.

I fully respect the fact that they're the best of the best.. an elite few. Compared to the # of players in college... we're talkin about the top 1.79% of college athletes....[1] (and only 0.0005% of the US Population)[2]
I have absolutely no problem with showing respect for that....
Just like corprate CEO's make millions... computer programmers (like what I used to do) can make anywhere from 50k/yr to 200k/yr (depending on which industry they're in)....
I can also fully respect the fact that in the end it is their job and like everybody else in this country they want pay raises.

I still can't respect their pay grade or players whining and bitching about their pay.

When I was working at Echostar Technology as a programmer making 30k... and working tons of overtime... I found myself a victim of political change. new director of engineering came in.... whole department got restructured...over time limits started getting changed... and people such as myself that was working all the overtime available ended up getting released.
As much as I loved having so much money (with the overtime I was working I was bringing home an extra 5-10k/yr) but I loved that place.. those people and the job so much more. Had the new management made their goals clear... I would've GLADLY have taken a paycut to have stayed there. I don't understand why such a concept of taking a small paycut is such a horrific idea for football players.
I mean for fucks sake... they're making anywhere from 500k-20mill a year.... and to do what? Yea football is hard work... ya if you want to be like Charles Woodson, Darrell Revis, Tom Brady, or any ultra elite player you gotta work every bit as hard as any other 9-5 joe....

But damn it... in the end... they're playing a GAME... they're doing what most every 5yo american boy dreams of doing... while the rest of us regular joes earn shit wage for jobs, if we're lucky, we're able to tolerate. I loved my job at Echostar... it wasn't my dream job.. but I haven't enjoyed any other job nearly as much as that job.
I can't bring myself to sympathies or feel sorry for somebody being paid millions for a dream job when roughly 70% of americans are being paid shit wages for jobs they hate[3]
Can't bring myself to be happy for a NFL player that gets a pay raise either...
Hell.. I can't even bring myself to feel sorry for a guy like Nick Collin's that had a career ending injury in 2011. Was I concerned for his health? Sure.. I'm not a complete jackass... but what he made in a single year I could put into a bank account and live comfortably on the interest for the rest of my life without ever having to get a job.[4]

Sorry... I wont feel sorry for somebody getting a paycut.... and for the most part I've lost tons of respect for the vast majority of NFL players... soo tired of hearing the argument that "they've gotta take care of their families"
bull shit. (I feel it as a lil insulting too)

[1] http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_NCAA ... _are_there
- http://www.numberof.net/number%C2%A0of% ... 2%A0teams/
- Compared to # of active players in the NFL (32 teams * maximum 53 man active roster.. 1,969)
[2] Based on July 2012 posted population of 313,914,000 https://www.google.com/publicdata/explo ... population
[3] http://www.forbes.com/sites/carminegall ... employees/
[4]Wellsfargo CD Savings account for 24month period posts a 0.25% interest rate... at $1 million the interest would still be 250,000k/yr... their 6month CD has a 0.15% interest rate... which would be 150,000k/yr. Standard CD accounts with an interest rate of 0.05%... thats still 50k/yr.
https://www.wellsfargo.com/savings_cds/rates


Sorry for my soap box..... I'm like one of a very small group of people in my area that even watches the NFL... almost entirely due to the above... everybody here watches NCAA Football "because they play for love of the game not the money" (Tired of hearing that too)

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Re: Tom Brady's new extension

Postby superben21 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:10 pm

Interesting story. I highly respect players who take a pay cut in the NFL. I never said that I thought people bitching about not taking a pay cut I was okay with, rather I said we can't get mad they make 340k-4mil because there job is in higher demand. Its also not true to say that Americans wrk hard at jobs they don't like. A lot of people enjoy there work probably a lot more than these guys. I don't know if anyone has done polls on this but I'd be interested.

Another thing is we are paying these guys for putting their neck on the line. This is a side point. They are able to get injured on the job more than most other professions (excluding steel, mining, etc..). The median household income in America is 28K a year; these guys do live the life. They don't need the money for their family, anyone who thinks that is moron. We just have to remember that we all value football at that high of a price. We pay them. Without us they're useless. If we didn't buy tickets and jerseys, they wouldn't make 2mil a year.

As for college I can't stand watching teams outside of the top 25 because it gets so boring and then I stare at my screen going "I could have made that play!" and "wtf was he thinking!". Gets on my nerves so bad. I don't watch football for the game aspect, if I want that I play. I watch for the strategy and getting in the coaches brains. College lacks the former compared (IMO) and sometimes you wonder about the latter at all levels :lol:

I got seriously injured playing football in 7th grade. While my injury was much worse than 99% of NFL injuries, it classifies as career ending. I got some breaks and recovered "better than possible" according to my doc. I wasn't supposed to be able to run again and I can run a 4.52 as I said earlier. I feel terrible for anyone who gets a serious injury no matter how much they make. I know what they go through and its hell. Worse than any job I've ever had and there's some bad ones on that list :?

You can have the soap box back :P
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Re: Tom Brady's new extension

Postby DarthViper3k » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:31 pm

superben21 wrote:Interesting story. I highly respect players who take a pay cut in the NFL. I never said that I thought people bitching about not taking a pay cut I was okay with, rather I said we can't get mad they make 340k-4mil because there job is in higher demand. Its also not true to say that Americans wrk hard at jobs they don't like. A lot of people enjoy there work probably a lot more than these guys. I don't know if anyone has done polls on this but I'd be interested.


Refer to the link on reference #3
There have been tons of polls on the subject... and the results vary from 70% to like 90%

superben21 wrote:I got seriously injured playing football in 7th grade. While my injury was much worse than 99% of NFL injuries, it classifies as career ending. I got some breaks and recovered "better than possible" according to my doc. I wasn't supposed to be able to run again and I can run a 4.52 as I said earlier. I feel terrible for anyone who gets a serious injury no matter how much they make. I know what they go through and its hell. Worse than any job I've ever had and there's some bad ones on that list :?

You can have the soap box back :P


Ya.. I had 10 years of martial arts experience is several various forms... if not for my back & knee probs (and unsupportive parents) I was workin on making that into a career... in fact I had a national scout that was interested in watching me perform at the nationals that I qualified for every year... but my parents never allowed me to go.... ugh

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Re: Tom Brady's new extension

Postby DrBrownsFan » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:50 pm

superben21 wrote:Another thing is we are paying these guys for putting their neck on the line. This is a side point. They are able to get injured on the job more than most other professions (excluding steel, mining, etc..).

And how much do these guys get paid? Not much more than absolute minimum living conditions. Their job is bearable/survivable only due to the unions petitioning for better safety and higher pay, yet the NFLPA seems to have more sway as an entity if they can lobby that Player A isn't being justly compensated at 340k/year. Football players don't make the world go 'round. The grunt workers, such as steel and mining, do a valuable service for the world, and they get paid a pittance compared to what these "entertainers" (that's really what sports boil down to, entertainment) make. (And don't even get me started on these ugly, talentless pop stars making bookoo bucks for what they do, that's just hideous. At least sports players have to have SOME talent before making millions of dollars...) Besides, if the truly "great" players were to quit because they weren't getting paid "enough" money, then people who couldn't quite make it or never had that chance (like you, superben21) would gladly step in and do the job for a lot less money. Yes, there would be a drop in individual production, but the players wouldn't be playing because of the money, there wouldn't be as many diva personalities, and the game would be more relatable to the intended audience, the real workers.

[/soapbox]
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Re: Tom Brady's new extension

Postby superben21 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:14 am

DarthViper3k wrote:
superben21 wrote:Interesting story. I highly respect players who take a pay cut in the NFL. I never said that I thought people bitching about not taking a pay cut I was okay with, rather I said we can't get mad they make 340k-4mil because there job is in higher demand. Its also not true to say that Americans wrk hard at jobs they don't like. A lot of people enjoy there work probably a lot more than these guys. I don't know if anyone has done polls on this but I'd be interested.

Refer to the link on reference #3
There have been tons of polls on the subject... and the results vary from 70% to like 90%


Do you have the stats for the NFL players? Or did I miss those too?

DrBrownsFan wrote:
superben21 wrote:Another thing is we are paying these guys for putting their neck on the line. This is a side point. They are able to get injured on the job more than most other professions (excluding steel, mining, etc..).

And how much do these guys get paid? Not much more than absolute minimum living conditions. Their job is bearable/survivable only due to the unions petitioning for better safety and higher pay, yet the NFLPA seems to have more sway as an entity if they can lobby that Player A isn't being justly compensated at 340k/year. Football players don't make the world go 'round. The grunt workers, such as steel and mining, do a valuable service for the world, and they get paid a pittance compared to what these "entertainers" (that's really what sports boil down to, entertainment) make. (And don't even get me started on these ugly, talentless pop stars making bookoo bucks for what they do, that's just hideous. At least sports players have to have SOME talent before making millions of dollars...) Besides, if the truly "great" players were to quit because they weren't getting paid "enough" money, then people who couldn't quite make it or never had that chance (like you, superben21) would gladly step in and do the job for a lot less money. Yes, there would be a drop in individual production, but the players wouldn't be playing because of the money, there wouldn't be as many diva personalities, and the game would be more relatable to the intended audience, the real workers.[/soapbox]

This is a reason we are offshoring all the heavy manual labor jobs to other countries. They complete the mining in hell conditions for a lot less money. "Physical" American jobs are disappearing quicker than ever because people don't enjoy those jobs. For goodness sakes, agriculture is a great example. 1%-2% of the labor force is in agg. Those guys used to have it really rough but now lots of them get to ride around in tractors with with AC, radio, and iPhone!

As for me and taking the spots of the other pro's I wouldn't. I've moved on to TP debate where my partner and I will be debating at nationals in June it looks like :) [but that's talk for another time or forum lol]. While I was getting scouted by colleges in 7th grade and I always loved football, I'm not sure if I would have even enjoyed being pro. It's just not the same fun game anymore because we pay them.
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Re: Tom Brady's new extension

Postby DrBrownsFan » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:28 am

superben21 wrote:As for me and taking the spots of the other pro's I wouldn't. I've moved on to TP debate where my partner and I will be debating at nationals in June it looks like :) [but that's talk for another time or forum lol]. While I was getting scouted by colleges in 7th grade and I always loved football, I'm not sure if I would have even enjoyed being pro. It's just not the same fun game anymore because we pay them.

:shock: :o :shock: :o :shock: :o 7TH GRADE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! And congrats on going to nationals, you are one talented dude!!
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Re: Tom Brady's new extension

Postby superben21 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:34 am

DrBrownsFan wrote:
superben21 wrote:As for me and taking the spots of the other pro's I wouldn't. I've moved on to TP debate where my partner and I will be debating at nationals in June it looks like :) [but that's talk for another time or forum lol]. While I was getting scouted by colleges in 7th grade and I always loved football, I'm not sure if I would have even enjoyed being pro. It's just not the same fun game anymore because we pay them.

:shock: :o :shock: :o :shock: :o 7TH GRADE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! And congrats on going to nationals, you are one talented dude!!

Yeah it was my only year playing organized football too. Broke my leg in the 5th game of the season. I had 13 tackles before I got hurt too! I was better at RB than FS though probably. Coaches were just starting to figure that out too. Up to that point I'd played baseball and got on those all star teams and hated every second of it haha

And thanks :D
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Re: Tom Brady's new extension

Postby DarthViper3k » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:32 am

superben21 wrote:
DarthViper3k wrote:
superben21 wrote:Interesting story. I highly respect players who take a pay cut in the NFL. I never said that I thought people bitching about not taking a pay cut I was okay with, rather I said we can't get mad they make 340k-4mil because there job is in higher demand. Its also not true to say that Americans wrk hard at jobs they don't like. A lot of people enjoy there work probably a lot more than these guys. I don't know if anyone has done polls on this but I'd be interested.

Refer to the link on reference #3
There have been tons of polls on the subject... and the results vary from 70% to like 90%


Do you have the stats for the NFL players? Or did I miss those too?



honestly... NFL players make enough money and the good ones have enough clout that if they're not happy.. .they talk to their agent and they do what it takes to make the player happy.
Seriously.. with the money they make... if they hate their job its not like they don't have agent's and NFL Career advisers to talk to about finding them something they do like.

So.... again... no sympathy

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Re: Tom Brady's new extension

Postby superben21 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:38 am

DarthViper3k wrote:honestly... NFL players make enough money and the good ones have enough clout that if they're not happy.. .they talk to their agent and they do what it takes to make the player happy.
Seriously.. with the money they make... if they hate their job its not like they don't have agent's and NFL Career advisers to talk to about finding them something they do like.

So.... again... no sympathy

Wait did you seriously just pull the money=happy card? :lol:
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