Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

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Re: Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

Postby Sidelion » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:32 pm

WHO DAT? WHO DAT? WHO DAT!!!

Their bounty system cost the Vikes a Super Bowl win... and their refs cost the Lions a playoff victory.

The Saints: the only team in the history of the NFL to go from bandwagoners-only to complete pariah overnight. BACK TO 1980 FOR YE!

(Disclaimer: I liked the Saints with Hebert. I absolutely abhor the modern Saints, though- and I think Sean Payton has constructed what may be the best offense in the modern NFL. A disaster does not a "good story" make. If we're going to mete out our loyalties to teams because of disasters natural or otherwise, then it needs to be done less arbitrarily- where's the media's and franchises' vitriol against the OKC? "Muck Fodell" and the Steelers' rare support of the Browns wasn't that long ago...)
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Re: Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

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Re: Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

Postby NFLVICK7 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:40 pm

The bounty system cost the Vikes a SB? How about their 5 fumbles? And Favre's picks. Maybe those had something to do with the game?

Yea Favre got smashed, but that's the point. Them having a bounty didn't make the OL of the vikes block any worse did it? The Saints got to Favre. Plain and simple. And when they got their. They hit him with everything they had. That's football.

The Lions got smashed in the playoffs. The refs had nothing to do with it. Bree shredded that JV defense.

I'm not a Saints fan btw. This is just the truth

This isn't a big deal. But Big bad Goodell has to flex his muscle sometimes. I hope someone decks him soon. He's a total idiot.
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Re: Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

Postby Sidelion » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:59 pm

The 'Aint's held all game long and the refs stopped a fumble return for a TD.

Yeah, this. Encouraging big hits is a basic coaching maxim; coaching to injure is malicious. The NFL should not permit a system like this- especially if it's not going to care for the disabled and especially in the modern game. Young men should not have to sacrifice the use of their limbs because some underhanded scumbag wants to win so badly he can't stand it. I'm not for a wimp league- let's bring back Butkus and LT- but we should never encourage intentionally destructive behavior from defenders that could end up with a much worse result than a sack on the quarterback.

Related quote: "Football, no matter what anyone says or how many new rules are dreamed up, is still a game of controlled violence. You can't kill anyone... and that's about the only limit put on it. Regardless of how poised or professional you think you are, regardless of how many Bibles you carry to the stadium each Sunday, there will be a point in the game when you must get down and you must get dirty. It is unavoidable- unless you spend the entire sixty minutes on the bench, collecting splinters on your behind. [...] Consider the mentality of the people I had to block for ten years. Their idea of a good time was watching the man with the football stagger. Their idea of disappointment was if he did so with his head still attached to his body. [...] I know how ridiculous that might sound, but so was a head coach talking to his players as if they were hired killers. I'll never forget when I was with the Bills, Chuck Knox telling us, 'OK, men, we go to Cincinnati, we make the hit and leave town before anybody can finger us.' [...] But Knox isn't the only NFL coach to encourage violence. Coaches and management throughout the league make no bones about wanting their players to show the kind of hostility on the field that, if displayed anywhere else, would lead to a prison stretch." -Conrad Dobler, offensive lineman, 1972-1981
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Re: Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

Postby Danchat » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:02 pm

NFLVICK7 wrote:The bounty system cost the Vikes a SB? How about their 5 fumbles? And Favre's picks. Maybe those had something to do with the game?

Yea Favre got smashed, but that's the point. Them having a bounty didn't make the OL of the vikes block any worse did it? The Saints got to Favre. Plain and simple. And when they got their. They hit him with everything they had. That's football.

The Lions got smashed in the playoffs. The refs had nothing to do with it. Bree shredded that JV defense.

I'm not a Saints fan btw. This is just the truth

This isn't a big deal. But Big bad Goodell has to flex his muscle sometimes. I hope someone decks him soon. He's a total idiot.

AP did fumble the game away, plus the 12 men on the field penalty, plus Favre's pick......
The Lions were shredded on defense, even without those penalties that was Brees's game.
Just wondering, but what else would Goodell do? Let it slide with a small penalty? He's just doing what must be done.
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Re: Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

Postby superben21 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:22 am

Danchat wrote:Just wondering, but what else would Goodell do? Let it slide with a small penalty? He's just doing what must be done.

Well, he could have done what he did with the Patriots in Spygate (virtually nothing), he could have done what he did with James Harrison (1 game, virtually nothing), or he could have just maybe just sespended the main man involved (Williams) instead of him and the whole gang. Kinda surprised to see Brees get away without a suspension after saying he didn't know about it :lol:

Disclaimer I'm not a Saints fan in anyway though I do like Brees cause of his just plain awesomeness.

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Re: Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

Postby NFLVICK7 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:08 pm

Those playoff games were won by the Saints. The Vikes couldn't hang onto the football. The Saint's were not going to lose that game.

The Lions game was an offense display. The Lions stood no chance.

Goodell went way overboard. Suspend Williams? Ok fine. Not Peyton.

And Bounties were given for knocking people out of games all the time back then. I don't care who said what. That was the defensive players mentality. Just ask Decon Jones.

Goodell Needs to go away. And not just because of this. He's just ruining the game.
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Re: Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

Postby BigDaddyCool » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:58 pm

No Vick, Goodell is trying to save the game from becoming a blood-sport like the UFC is.

I will bet you that there is more to this story then we are hearing. I am guessing that Goodell and NFL Security has more evidence of wrongdoing by Gregg Williams that they are hanging onto and not releasing to the public. It's like the Dowd Report on Pete Rose - there have been parts of that report that have never been released by the Commissioners office because they would have been too damaging to everyone all around. I will bet that Goodell is doing something similar here and holding something back, but he has to come down hard on those involved because of what has been found out.

I heard at one point yesterday that an associate of Gregg Williams went to him and donated $5,000.00 of his own money to the bounty pool for a bounty on Aaron Rodgers before the 2011 season opener. If that is the case then it opens up a whole new can of worms for Goodell and the league. because if outside money can come in and influence player behavior during a game, who is to say that that same outside money couldn't be used to force players to throw games or shave points? That is the nightmare scenario that Goodell is trying to avoid, and if it is true that outside money is involved then I completely understand why he has come down as hard as he has.
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Re: Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

Postby NFLVICK7 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:05 pm

............. For 50 years before all of this the game was fine. Why does it need to be changed now? It wasn't turning into a bloodsport. (and the UFC is awesome). No Goodell is taking the game and making into what HE wants.

There was no point shaving. It was all about knocking the other person out. That's what defensive football has always been about and should always be. I love offense, but it's ridiculous. You have 3 QB's go for over 5000 yards. QB's with over 40 TD passes. Corners can't even touch WR's anymore. QB's can't be touched for the most part. Especially if their name is Brady or Rodgers. A Safety can't even make big clean hits anymore because they get flagged.

He is killing defensive football. Why even have defense on the field anymore? To give the refs players to throw flags on? To simulate that someone is trying to stop the offense? I don't get it.

The game was fine the way it was. The only nightmare for Goodell is himself. TD celebrations, big hits, hits on the QB. What's next? You can't touch the QB and it is going to be like a 7 on 7 drill? The game is changing for the worst.
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Re: Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

Postby Sidelion » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:12 pm

NFLVICK7 wrote:Those playoff games were won by the Saints. The Vikes couldn't hang onto the football. The Saint's were not going to lose that game.

Four late hits with no call in the Vikes game- that's not odd in the least bit? It came down to OT, it wasn't a blowout dominated by turnovers. The Vikes didn't fumble away anything, one underhanded team just didn't get called for their tactics.

Keeping momentum is a bit hard when the refs don't do their job properly. Why try to get any pressure if no call's going to come as the 'Aint's o-line blatantly holds? Any team can lose on any given Sunday, as Elmer Layden was once fond of saying; don't forget the Lions were ahead going into the half and had seven ripped away due to faulty officiating. Just glossing over this game with "it was all Brees" and attempting to recast the game in a different light doesn't achieve anything; same with Super Bowl XL.

Payton and Loomis knew about it. Why shouldn't they be suspended? At best, it's criminal negligence; at worst, it's accompliceship. Goodell is doing his job; if you want to see a bad commissioner, look at the NBA.

Just because something used to occur does not excuse the ethical error in committing such actions. I don't agree with 2004 rule changes on passing, for example, but I know I'll never support the intentional injury of another player. (God bless you, Mike Utley.) Clean, big hitting is not the same as intentionally attempting to obliterate another person.

There's more than just one factor to the drastic increase in passing in 2011; it's not as clean cut as "GOODELL". Take the warmer weather this year, for example. The years and years and years prior that hinted that this was coming in the first place.
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Re: Saints hit hard with bounty punishments

Postby NFLVICK7 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:22 pm

Sidelion wrote:
NFLVICK7 wrote:Those playoff games were won by the Saints. The Vikes couldn't hang onto the football. The Saint's were not going to lose that game.

Four late hits with no call in the Vikes game- that's not odd in the least bit? It came down to OT, it wasn't a blowout dominated by turnovers. The Vikes didn't fumble away anything, one underhanded team just didn't get called for their tactics.

Keeping momentum is a bit hard when the refs don't do their job properly. Why try to get any pressure if no call's going to come as the 'Aint's o-line blatantly holds? Any team can lose on any given Sunday, as Elmer Layden was once fond of saying; don't forget the Lions were ahead going into the half and had seven ripped away due to faulty officiating. Just glossing over this game with "it was all Brees" and attempting to recast the game in a different light doesn't achieve anything; same with Super Bowl XL.

Payton and Loomis knew about it. Why shouldn't they be suspended? At best, it's criminal negligence; at worst, it's accompliceship. Goodell is doing his job; if you want to see a bad commissioner, look at the NBA.

Just because something used to occur does not excuse the ethical error in committing such actions. I don't agree with 2004 rule changes on passing, for example, but I know I'll never support the intentional injury of another player. (God bless you, Mike Utley.) Clean, big hitting is not the same as intentionally attempting to obliterate another person.

There's more than just one factor to the drastic increase in passing in 2011; it's not as clean cut as "GOODELL". Take the warmer weather this year, for example. The years and years and years prior that hinted that this was coming in the first place.

Get out of here. The Vikes lost that game. They fumbled it away, then Favre threw it away. Danchat said it himself and he is a vikings fan. I see you're just a saints hater. Which is fine. But then your opinion is bias. And I'm not a Saints fan. Why does no one talk about the officiating in the Steelers vs Seahawks SB? People need to realize the saints just played better than the vikings. They took care of the football. People always say turnovers will lose you a game. The vikings turned it over.

Goodell is killing football. Clean big hits are flagged now too, you can't touch a QB, or a WR. Forget the county system. This is the entire NFL. There is a serious issue when clean hits start getting flagged. No one had complaints about it before. Why change it? There was no need. All these god like offensive numbers are because of these rule changes. Defenders can't just tackle a QB now. They have to to tackle them in a specific way. Giving the QB more time to pass because the defender can't just react now, he has to think. If your hand grazes his helmet. it's a flag. That's B.S.

These rule changes are bad. Don't even include the county system. Just the rules themselves. Horrible rules. Helmet to helmet is a good rule tho. How ever Refs seem to think every time a safety lays out a WR down the middle it's a dirty hit, when it isn't.
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