Is Big Ben a HOFr?

Is Big Ben a HOF QB?

Yes
13
81%
No
3
19%
 
Total votes: 16

sloppy_fish
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Re: Is Big Ben a HOFr?

Postby sloppy_fish » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:42 pm

Super Bowls/Titles are a team accomplishment.


Tell that to the committee... several great players are not in because of this - that sole reason

Getting into the hall you need a play that defines you, most often that play comes in the postseason ... most in super bowls

nobody cares about a play in the regular season, looks nice on youtube but when you stack it up against say stallworths catch in the super bowl or elways touchdown in the super bowl, that touchdown thrown by rivers looks meaningless now

Re: Is Big Ben a HOFr?

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ultimatum77
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Re: Is Big Ben a HOFr?

Postby ultimatum77 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:04 pm

Yes, he is a HOFer. He's a big reason the steelers are in playoff contention every year. Without him, that steelers offense would not excel or put up points and they would be a 8-8 or 7-9 team at best.
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AaronS
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Re: Is Big Ben a HOFr?

Postby AaronS » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:57 am

sloppy_fish wrote:Tell that to the committee... several great players are not in because of this - that sole reason

Getting into the hall you need a play that defines you, most often that play comes in the postseason ... most in super bowls

nobody cares about a play in the regular season, looks nice on youtube but when you stack it up against say stallworths catch in the super bowl or elways touchdown in the super bowl, that touchdown thrown by rivers looks meaningless now


Don't get me started on the committee. Peter King thinks he got Art Monk elected into the HOF.

.. as for the rest;

2 of the very best players I've ever seen, Barry Sanders and Eric Dickerson, according to the 'rings' argument, never meant anything to this League! Yet they were the very best players at their position in their primes, with little argument.

Dan Marino, a top 5 QB on anyone's list.. 1 Super Bowl, a loss. Most prolific passer in history in his prime.

Reggie White.. Best D-lineman in his prime, hands down; couldn't win a Playoff game in Philly. With (allegedly) the best defensive mind in the game (Buddy Ryan)

Conversely; I'll argue all day that Bill Belichick could win Super Bowls (plural!) with a QB OTHER THAN Brady. (Not saying that as a knock against Brady! More to magnify Belichicks greatness in his era) I believe whole-heartedly, he could do what Joe Gibbs did, winning multiple Titles with different QBs. He's THAT good at running his organization. That's all hypothetical, but with an organization as good as the Pats, would anyone bother to argue they couldn't identify another QB? Belichick won 11 games in a season with Matt Cassell for goodness sake!!

.. and last, I'll cite Aaron Rodgers;

Other than Brady, undisputedly the best QB in football (respect to Drew Brees) Rodgers has a Title, in the ONLY season the Packers had an elite defense. Every year since then, his D has been horse manure.

Great organizations win Championships. And props to them.

The NFL Hall of Fame should be reserved for the very best players to have played in the League, REGARDLESS of whether they played on great teams.
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KO'BBF
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Re: Is Big Ben a HOFr?

Postby KO'BBF » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:28 pm

You speak the truth, I agree with all of your players mentioned that they belong in the category. I do feel that the HoF should be reserved to those who truly made the game special. Winning championships puts you in that group. The only Super Bowl winning Quarterback I do not support is Trent Dilfer because THAT! is the only thing he accomplished in the league.

Roethlisberger (did I spell that right?) did win two championships, plus he was a regular starter in the National Football League for (what is it now?) 13 seasons. He owns Steelers passing records. Same story with Eli.

Without the rings, no, they wouldn't make it in. But both did it twice and that will take them there.. Gee, look at how Eli won his? Super good football, those games were.
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KO'BBF
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Re: Is Big Ben a HOFr?

Postby KO'BBF » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:32 pm

Would this be the time and place for a Ben Roethlisberger joke?

Did you hear about the sandwich called the Ben Roethlisberger in a restaurant in Pittsburgh?

Yeah, it's just a regular hamburger, but they do force you to eat it.



....with that I'm out of this topic .... (I'm just the joke carrier, don't shoot me)
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Re: Is Big Ben a HOFr?

Postby sloppy_fish » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:53 pm

AaronS wrote:
sloppy_fish wrote:The NFL Hall of Fame should be reserved for the very best players to have played in the League, REGARDLESS of whether they played on great teams.


That's true and some players that will never get in because of that such as Calvin Johnson (man, if he was actually on a winning football team he would likely have a ring and still be playing)... irony is the Lions are a better team on offense this year.

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Re: Is Big Ben a HOFr?

Postby AaronS » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:26 pm

sloppy_fish wrote:That's true and some players that will never get in because of that such as Calvin Johnson (man, if he was actually on a winning football team he would likely have a ring and still be playing)... irony is the Lions are a better team on offense this year.


I watched the same thing happen in Green Bay after Sterling Sharpes neck injury.

I'll never argue the Packers were a better offense without Sharpe.. but Favre was the League MVP 3 consecutive years right after his retirement.

.. perhaps just a complete coincidence. And that was a very talented offense. Vintage West Coast Offense performers.
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sloppy_fish
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Re: Is Big Ben a HOFr?

Postby sloppy_fish » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:00 pm

Just happens... football is played real time so anything can happen in that scenario

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ThePurplePeopleEater
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Re: Is Big Ben a HOFr?

Postby ThePurplePeopleEater » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:10 pm

AaronS wrote:
KO'BBF wrote:He won two Super Bowls and that is the only stat that really matters.


I'm not a believer in that.

The HOF is to honor individual accomplishment(s)

Super Bowls/Titles are a team accomplishment.

And besides, if that's the case, the Ladainian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson (probably :x), Eric Dickerson, etc shouldn't even be considered for the HOF.
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Re: Is Big Ben a HOFr?

Postby NickyJ » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:53 pm

AaronS wrote:
sloppy_fish wrote:That's true and some players that will never get in because of that such as Calvin Johnson (man, if he was actually on a winning football team he would likely have a ring and still be playing)... irony is the Lions are a better team on offense this year.


I watched the same thing happen in Green Bay after Sterling Sharpes neck injury.

I'll never argue the Packers were a better offense without Sharpe.. but Favre was the League MVP 3 consecutive years right after his retirement.

.. perhaps just a complete coincidence. And that was a very talented offense. Vintage West Coast Offense performers.

Generally, I consider cases like those to be from over-reliance on the star players. While Johnson played, Johnson was basically the entire receiver corps, and everyone else was complimentary. Once he retired, they actually opened up the offense and used all their resources. It's not the player's fault that the coaches failed to make the offense work. Same goes for AP; this year was the first time I've seen the team actually TRY to manage an offense that wasn't based around Peterson, with everything else complimentary. Both teams looked so much healthier on offense when they had to get creative.
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