Jose21crisis' Attribute Research

Sliders, settings and other adjustments to make the game more realistic.
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cdcool
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Re: Attribute Research: Gen6 M08 Ratings and their modern counterparts.

Postby cdcool » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:51 am

jose21crisis wrote:
cdcool wrote:
jose21crisis wrote:I wanted to post this, so I can keep track of what each M18 rating means in the Gen6 Madden 08. I'll list the rating in Madden 08, and the equal in Madden 18. This is what I think the ratings relate to, as well as what results from the research I do.

  • Speed: Speed.
  • Strength: Strength, Impact Blocking, Block Shedding (Shared with Agility), Power Moves, Press Rating (Except Press Coverage in M08 doesn't work)
  • Awareness: Awareness, Ball Carrier Vision, Route Running (For Option Routes), Man Coverage, Zone Coverage, Play Recognition, Pursuit.
  • Agility: Agility, Elusiveness, Juke Move, Spin Move, Block Shedding (Shared with Strength), Finesse Moves.
  • Acceleration: Acceleration, Release.
  • Catching: Catching, Catch In Traffic, Spectacular Catch.
  • Carrying: Carrying.
  • Jumping: Jumping.
  • Break Tackle: Trucking, Stiff Arm.
  • Tackle: Tackling, Hit Power.
  • Throw Power: Throw Power.
  • Throw Accuracy: Short Throw Accuracy, Medium Throw Accuracy, Deep Throw Accuracy, Throw On The Run.
  • Pass Block: Pass Blocking.
  • Run Block: Run Blocking.
  • Kick Power: Kick Power.
  • Kick Accuracy: Kick Accuracy.
  • Kick Return: Kick Return Rating.
  • Stamina: Stamina.
  • Injury: Injury Rating.
  • Toughness: Nothing similar.

This list will change as I keep doing experiments related to player attributes.


I'm confused are you basing your findings in the Forum on the Console version of Madden or the PC version?


Hi,

These ones are based on what I found on multiple forums that talked about Next Gen Madden, which included Operation Sports. I also consulted the Madden 08, 09 and 10 Prima Guides for their descriptions on each rating. Combining that with what I'm learning about Madden 08, as well as my own judgement, I made that list. Most of the judgement calls are with Strength and Agility, namely Block Shedding and Finesse Moves. Stiff Arm Rating is also a judgement call, as I haven't tested that one. I placed it under Break Tackle, although it could be Strength. The rest are the most obvious calls, like all the Accuracy stats go under Throwing Accuracy, Tackling and Hit Power both go under Tackle, all the Catch stuff go on Catching and so on.


So it's the latest Console versions, which Operations Sports covers.
I was very active in Operation Sports many years ago and developed sliders there for the Console, Xbox and PS3, also.
I don't believe anything on Operation Sports pertains to Madden 2008 for the PC, you can you make assumptions or judgments on ratings and attributes tho between the platforms, I would be very careful and not use the Console versions or references to it as a way of trying to work with Madden 2008 for the PC.

Re: Attribute Research: Gen6 M08 Ratings and their modern counterparts.

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henshao
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Re: Jose21crisis' Attribute Research

Postby henshao » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:48 pm

For a long time I made the same mistake you did: disregarding the Strength rating for positions other than linemen.

In Madden 08 strength almost certainly affects stiff arms for running backs along with what tackle and break tackle animations they will receive. A bigger stronger running back even when brought down will tend to fall forward for an additional yard or two, this can lead to touchdowns from the 1 yard line even when your guy gets hit behind the line

I never tested this beyond superstar mode but strength also seems to affect ball speed and perhaps even quickness of release for quarterbacks; I'm sure stronger cornerbacks jam weaker receivers better etc

Something else that needs to be experimented with is the effects of player listed weight vs player body overall size in regards to hitting ability

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Re: Jose21crisis' Attribute Research

Postby jose21crisis » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:13 pm

henshao wrote:For a long time I made the same mistake you did: disregarding the Strength rating for positions other than linemen.

In Madden 08 strength almost certainly affects stiff arms for running backs along with what tackle and break tackle animations they will receive. A bigger stronger running back even when brought down will tend to fall forward for an additional yard or two, this can lead to touchdowns from the 1 yard line even when your guy gets hit behind the line

I never tested this beyond superstar mode but strength also seems to affect ball speed and perhaps even quickness of release for quarterbacks; I'm sure stronger cornerbacks jam weaker receivers better etc

Something else that needs to be experimented with is the effects of player listed weight vs player body overall size in regards to hitting ability


For the Strength on Running Backs: I have not tested if Strength does influence Stiff Arms, which is something I should do. I though it was based on the Break Tackle rating, since most places where I read (The Madden 08 Prima Guide is my main source) says that it is Break Tackle. Break Tackle also controls if you get the trucking animation or the elusive animations along with Agility.

For the Strength on QBs; I did read somewhere that in newer Maddens that happened, stronger QBs throwing it faster and deeper down field with higher Strength, but I never got to test it.
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Re: Jose21crisis' Attribute Research

Postby henshao » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:55 pm

One thing I am definitely curious about is Body Overall vs Listed Weight/Height. I wonder which (if either or both) the game uses when calculating which tackle/break tackle/block/break block animation to use. Specifically, can a 6', 400lb player with a 0 overall body and good strength and break tackle run over the same player that a 6', 160lb player with 100 overall body and the same ratings

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Re: Jose21crisis' Attribute Research

Postby jose21crisis » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:34 pm

henshao wrote:One thing I am definitely curious about is Body Overall vs Listed Weight/Height. I wonder which (if either or both) the game uses when calculating which tackle/break tackle/block/break block animation to use. Specifically, can a 6', 400lb player with a 0 overall body and good strength and break tackle run over the same player that a 6', 160lb player with 100 overall body and the same ratings


From what I tested (The first test I did) the animations are based on the Agility and Break Tackle (or Trucking if you prefer) ratings for Ball Carrier. Agility controls elusive animations, Break Tackle controls trucking animations. Break Tackle takes priority over Agility if both are equal (80 Break Tackle, 80 Agility). There might be more factors into this, like player type (Speed, Balanced or Power) and Player Weapons (Power Back, Elusive Back, Speed Back or Feature Back). If I remember correctly, the game doesn't take into account player size into any of it's formulas. I think I read that in the TV Tropes page for Madden.

I'll still get to test that, by putting running backs the size of punters with 99 Break Tackle and 40 Agility to see if they keep running people over, and running backs the size of Jerome Bettis with 99 Agility and 40 Break Tackle to see if they dodge people.
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Re: Jose21crisis' Attribute Research

Postby henshao » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:55 pm

You are aware of what I mean by Body Overall? The ratings which control the players appearance and are independent of his listed weight?

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Re: Jose21crisis' Attribute Research

Postby jose21crisis » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:01 pm

henshao wrote:You are aware of what I mean by Body Overall? The ratings which control the players appearance and are independent of his listed weight?


You mean when you create a superstar, you can later his arm size, how much muscle and fat they have. Same with the legs. You mean that?
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And be able to improvise.

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Re: Jose21crisis' Attribute Research

Postby henshao » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:44 pm

You are correct sir.

Curiousity got the better of me so I tested it out myself. I created 4 running backs, all with 98 in every rating

LightSmallRB weighed 160lbs, had 0 Body Overall, Muscle etc
HeavySmallRB weighed 415lbs, had edit: 0 Body Overall, Muscle etc
LightBigRB weighed 160lbs, had 99 Body Overall, Muscle etc
HeavyBigRB weighed 415lbs, had 99 Body Overall, Muscle etc

...and put them all on the Cardinals (no particular reason for the team). I started a new franchise with these four RB and saved, then played the running back minicamp with each of them and reloaded to try the others. Here are my findings.

When using the 'highlight' stick, LightSmallRB could only execute Agility moves. HeavySmallRB trucked defenders laying them flat with ease. LightBigRB could only execute Agility moves. HeavyBigRB was the same as HeavySmallRB.
Summary: Player weight is, at minimum, a large factor in whether a player will execute a power broken tackle or agility broken tackle. The fact that the game DOES IN FACT consider player size (you have been lied to my friend) on broken tackle animations implies it probably does so for all interactions between players.

I didn't test stiff arms and strength, but I am somewhat curious now. I am also curious as to whether the game calculates height vs weight; IE does a 7 foot player who weighs 240lbs still truck as easily as a 5'9 player who's 240lbs.

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Re: Jose21crisis' Attribute Research

Postby jose21crisis » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:56 pm

henshao wrote:You are correct sir.

Curiousity got the better of me so I tested it out myself. I created 4 running backs, all with 98 in every rating

LightSmallRB weighed 160lbs, had 0 Body Overall, Muscle etc
HeavySmallRB weighed 415lbs, had edit: 0 Body Overall, Muscle etc
LightBigRB weighed 160lbs, had 99 Body Overall, Muscle etc
HeavyBigRB weighed 415lbs, had 99 Body Overall, Muscle etc

...and put them all on the Cardinals (no particular reason for the team). I started a new franchise with these four RB and saved, then played the running back minicamp with each of them and reloaded to try the others. Here are my findings.

When using the 'highlight' stick, LightSmallRB could only execute Agility moves. HeavySmallRB trucked defenders laying them flat with ease. LightBigRB could only execute Agility moves. HeavyBigRB was the same as HeavySmallRB.
Summary: Player weight is, at minimum, a large factor in whether a player will execute a power broken tackle or agility broken tackle. The fact that the game DOES IN FACT consider player size (you have been lied to my friend) on broken tackle animations implies it probably does so for all interactions between players.

I didn't test stiff arms and strength, but I am somewhat curious now. I am also curious as to whether the game calculates height vs weight; IE does a 7 foot player who weighs 240lbs still truck as easily as a 5'9 player who's 240lbs.


Well, that solves whenever weight does matter, and whenever Body Mass matters as well.

For the first test I did with Agility and Break Tackles, I used a 6'5'', 226lbs RB (Basically, Todd Gurley). Maybe the threshold whenever we get a power break tackle or an elusive break tackle is Ball Carrier's Weight vs. Tackler's Weight. If the RB is heavier, then Power. If the RB is lighter, then Elusive. Could be that.
Semper fi
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Always have a plan. And a backup plan. And backups to the backup.
And be able to improvise.

henshao
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Re: Jose21crisis' Attribute Research

Postby henshao » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:23 pm

Forgot to mention, they were all 5'10.


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