Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Sliders, settings and other adjustments to make the game more realistic.
User avatar
jose21crisis
Hall of Fame
Posts: 1547
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:14 am

Re: Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Postby jose21crisis » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:26 am

BUS36 wrote:I think Mike Tomlin (West Coast) is not the right choice for the Steelers ...they have more (Vertical) passes over 15 yards with audibles to slants and RPOs. Shotgun formation is being used about 52% of the time ....Talk is there will be more No Huddle with a strong emphasis on short yardage and redzone under center...along with the use of the FB more often.


This initial list was based on the philosophy I found pro-football-reference.com. Now, I start doing adjustments based on what I can find and what people comments about. So, for the Steelers, while they are a team that runs the Erhardt-Perkins system, and that would mean an Offensive Aggression of 50+, meaning "West Coast", I'll lower it back to 48 to make them be "Vertical Passing". For the No-Huddle part, I'm not sure on how to implement that just via Coach sliders. You have calhoupe's scripts though, so you could use it to make Ben be like Peyron Manning and use No-Huddel and more audibles. And the increased use of the FB could be something achievable by changing the playbook to one that has a good amount of Shotgun and I formation sets.

Thanks for the update.
Semper fi
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Always have a plan. And a backup plan. And backups to the backup.
And be able to improvise.

Re: Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

User avatar
BUS36
Hall of Fame
Posts: 3794
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:57 am
Location: Springfield,Va.

Re: Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Postby BUS36 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:23 am

Steelers defense...they now run what is called a 3-4 hybrid..the over and under with the normal used. 50% of the snaps were played in a 2-4-5 ( 2DEs-4LBs-5 DBs) and 2-3-6( only difference is a CB is down in the LB position)..Butler likes to blitz the slot CB(Hilton) along with the Safety. Run a two deep safety when playing zone and when playing man usually is up tight and in the 3-4 formations.

Note: in the Steelers offense Bell was slotted in the twins (wr-wr-OL-rb-wr)and sent out wide in 5wide(wr-wr-OL-TE/wr-wr-rb)
Image
I bleed BLACK N GOLD

User avatar
jose21crisis
Hall of Fame
Posts: 1547
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:14 am

Re: Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Postby jose21crisis » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:32 am

BUS36 wrote:Steelers defense...they now run what is called a 3-4 hybrid..the over and under with the normal used. 50% of the snaps were played in a 2-4-5 ( 2DEs-4LBs-5 DBs) and 2-3-6( only difference is a CB is down in the LB position)..Butler likes to blitz the slot CB(Hilton) along with the Safety. Run a two deep safety when playing zone and when playing man usually is up tight and in the 3-4 formations.

Note: in the Steelers offense Bell was slotted in the twins (wr-wr-OL-rb-wr)and sent out wide in 5wide(wr-wr-OL-TE/wr-wr-rb)


That can be done with the playbooks. If it is with the default playbooks, using the Subs menu and Sub package can move Bell to the Slot or Wide (I think there is a HB Wideout package ... or was it just HB Slot?). With the custom playbooks that can be done easier by changing the default set and the sub packages to have HB#1 as the wideout and TE#1 in the slot.

As for the defense, the 3-4 playbook does the job pretty good. I'll try to get around for looking for the most accurate playbook per team later today.
Semper fi
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Always have a plan. And a backup plan. And backups to the backup.
And be able to improvise.

User avatar
BUS36
Hall of Fame
Posts: 3794
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:57 am
Location: Springfield,Va.

Re: Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Postby BUS36 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:56 pm

BUS36 wrote:
Steelers defense...they now run what is called a 3-4 hybrid..the over and under with the normal used. 50% of the snaps were played in a 2-4-5 ( 2DEs-4LBs-5 DBs) and 2-3-6( only difference is a CB is down in the LB position)..Butler likes to blitz the slot CB(Hilton) along with the Safety. Run a two deep safety when playing zone and when playing man usually is up tight and in the 3-4 formations.

Note: in the Steelers offense Bell was slotted in the twins (wr-wr-OL-rb-wr)and sent out wide in 5wide(wr-wr-OL-TE/wr-wr-rb)


jose21crisis wrote:
That can be done with the playbooks. If it is with the default playbooks, using the Subs menu and Sub package can move Bell to the Slot or Wide (I think there is a HB Wideout package ... or was it just HB Slot?). With the custom playbooks that can be done easier by changing the default set and the sub packages to have HB#1 as the wideout and TE#1 in the slot.

As for the defense, the 3-4 playbook does the job pretty good. I'll try to get around for looking for the most accurate playbook per team later today.
Yes for the most part the 3-4 playbook works the best..I have looked at others it is the closest( others could be GB- under Capsers)
Image
I bleed BLACK N GOLD

User avatar
jose21crisis
Hall of Fame
Posts: 1547
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:14 am

Re: Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Postby jose21crisis » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:17 pm

Ok, something I noticed while running CPU vs. CPU games is that teams that run Air Coryell Offense ... I mean, teams that Madden clasifies as "Vertical Passing" due to the slider changes (Lions and Saints did this) have this slight tendency to comeout in something like an I set or a Singleback - Ace set, then the QB audibles to a spread set. So that I formation is suddenly an Empty set with the QB under center, and that SingleBack - Ace (12 Package ... I think .... 2TEs, better that way) is suddenly a spread set with 2 WRs and 2 TEs spread out. This was pretty interesting. I have so far not tested the changes I wrote on the latest post that has philosophies, but I'll do so ASAP and report back. In the end, maybe the best could be having Just 2 Offensive Aggession settings, 53 (Maybe less, I'm seeing QBs force a fair amount of passes. Could be 51, Bill Belichick's Offensive Aggression in the vanilla rosters) and 48.
Semper fi
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Always have a plan. And a backup plan. And backups to the backup.
And be able to improvise.

User avatar
jose21crisis
Hall of Fame
Posts: 1547
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:14 am

Re: Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Postby jose21crisis » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:06 pm

Results: Not what I expected. The Chargers (56 O. Aggressiveness) didn't call any audible through the half game I saw. Neither did the Falcons (53 O. Aggressiveness). The Chargers used the Wildcat for their first scored on 2nd and 8 and the 8 yard line and scored with Antonio Gates catching the pass, so that's something (And it impressed me as I've never saw the AI employ the Wildcat, let alone score with it.)

So, what I'll do is reasearch a bit more, but in theory, the O. Aggressiveness I should be using are 48 and 53
Semper fi
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Always have a plan. And a backup plan. And backups to the backup.
And be able to improvise.

User avatar
jose21crisis
Hall of Fame
Posts: 1547
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:14 am

Re: Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Postby jose21crisis » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:43 pm

Ok, so I decided to look into the playbooks and I'll post the defensive playbooks that I think should be appropiate for the 2017 coaches. I will start work on the 2018 season, but that will be later. The offensive playbooks should be fine.

There are some problems that happen in M08. Some is that I can't really change the AI playcalling a whole lot (A team that mostly runs Cover 3 IRL, may not run a lot of Cover 3 with the assigned playbook) or behavior (Press Coverage doesn't work, the AI doesn't call for press coverage or off coverage, which is important in some schemes), but I'll do the best I can. I'll use what I know from the playbooks, as well as part of moonbax's research to try and fill in each coach, but I won't totally rely on him. For instance, every offensive playbook he selected didn't have the Wildcat. And while the Wildcat is pretty rare to see, it is used every now and then and the AI in M08 knows how to use it (I was shocked and amazed when I saw it). I'd say most of the playbooks already present are good enough, but I'll note where it could be changed.

A few things. I'm going to say that I HATE(!) teams that run Hybrid 3-4/4-3 sets (Looks at Matt Patricia). They are a pain get a playbook assigned to them.

Second, the defensive aggression, for now, should at a solid 50. Lowering it results in more base sets (3-4 or 4-3). Raising it results in more sub packages (Nickel, Dime and Quarter). It maybe increases the amount of blitzing done by the team, not 100% sure of that.

Third, moonbax found that pushing the Pass/Run Defense Ratio too much resulted in bad gameplay by the QBs and RBs. However, considering he had a slider set that had 34 QB Accuracy (Affects overall player awareness) and 37 WR Catching (Affects everyone's catching) ... that's expected. But, what I found is that: High Pass Defense + 4-3 set = More Nickel 4-2-5 than Dime 4-1-6 and 4-3 Under. High Run Defense + 4-3 Set = Nickel 4-2-5, some Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6 and 4-3 Over. High Pass Defense + 3-4 set = More Nickel 3-3-5 than 2-4-5, more Quarter 3-1-7 than Dime 4-1-6 or Dollar 3-2-6. 50 Pass Defense + 3-4 set = More Nickel 2-4-5 than 3-3-5, some Dime 4-1-6. High Run Defense + 3-4 set = Even split of Nickel 2-4-5 and 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6 and no Quarter. This also influences INT and fumbles so, the best would be to be careful with this. The best to use would be either 49 Pass Defense (For teams that run 2DT formations like Nickel 2-4-5) or 51 Pass Defense (For teams that run 1DT formations like Quarter 3-1-7).

Fourth, whenever I mention 2 playbooks means that both should be able to fulfill the role of the scheme the team is running.

2017 Coach Defensive Philosophies and Playbooks:
Bears:
John Fox/Vic Fangio (3-4 with some hybrid looks, Cover 2 Zone Press):
Defensive Playbook: Ravens (3-4 book with a 4-3 Under set and 46 Bear and Normal. Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5 and 1-5-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 2-4-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Bengals:
Marvin Lewis/Paul Guenther (4-3, Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Vikings (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 51% (Nickel 3-3-5 and Quarter 3-1-7 should be favored)

Bills:
Sean McDermott/Leslie Frazier (4-3, Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Vikings (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 51% (Nickel 3-3-5 and Quarter 3-1-7 should be favored) Would ask for help on this one.

Broncos:
Vance Joseph/Joe Woods (3-4, Man):
Defensive Playbook: 3-4 (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 1-5-5, 1-5-5 Prowl. Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7).
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 51% (Nickel 3-3-5 and Quarter 3-1-7 should be favored)

Browns:
Hue Jackson/Gregg Williams (4-3, Cover 2 Zone/Cover 4):
Defensive Playbook: Redskins (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7) or Jaguars (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7).
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Buccaneers:
Dirk Koetter/Mike Smith (4-3, Cover 2 Man):
Defensive Playbook: Jaguars (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7).
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 51% (Nickel 3-3-5 and Quarter 3-1-7 should be favored)

Cardinals:
Bruce Arians/James Bettcher (3-4, Heavy Mix of Coverages. At times they use "Big" 7 DBs sets, Subs OR custom playbooks are required to simulate this):
Defensive Playbook: Jets (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5, 1-5-5, 1-5-5 Prowl. Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7) or Cowboys (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5. Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Chargers:
Anthony Lynn/Gus Bradley (4-3, Cover 3 Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Bears (4-3 with 46 Bear, Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Chiefs:
Andy Reid/Bob Sutton (3-4, Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Jets (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5, 1-5-5, 1-5-5 Prowl. Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 2-4-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Colts:
Chuck Pagano/Ted Monachino (3-4, Man):
Defensive Playbook: Chargers (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 2-4-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Cowboys:
Jason Garrett/Rod Marinelli (4-3, Tampa 2):
Defensive Playbook: Buccaneers (4-3 with Tampa 2 Concepts (Linebacker cover the middle of the field). Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 51% (Nickel 3-3-5 and Quarter 3-1-7 should be favored)

Dolphins:
Adam Gase/Matt Burke (4-3, Cover 2 Zone/Cover 3):
Defensive Playbook: Texans (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Eagles:
Doug Pederson/Jim Schwartz (4-3, Cover 2 Man):
Defensive Playbook: Titans (Should be the Titans book. Jim Schwartz book, 4-3 with 46 Bear, which can simulate a "Wide-9" technique. Nickel 4-2-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Falcons:
Dan Quinn/Marquand Manuel (4-3, Cover 3 Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Texans (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

49ers:
Kyle Shanahan/Robert Saleh (4-3, Cover 1 Man, Cover 3 Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Texans (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Giants:
Ben McAdoo/Steve Spagnuolo (4-3, Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Giants (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Jaguars:
Doug Marrone/Todd Wash (4-3, Cover 3 Zone/Cover 1 Press Man):
Defensive Playbook: Bengals (4-3 with 46 Normal and Bear. Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6, Quarter 3-1-7) or Lions (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Jets:
Todd Bowles/Kacy Rodgers (3-4, Man/Zone Mix):
Defensive Playbook: Jets (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5, 1-5-5, 1-5-5 Prowl. Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7) or Cowboys (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5. Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 2-4-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Lions:
Jim Caldwell/Teryl Austin (4-3, Off-Man):
Defensive Playbook: Titans (4-3 with 46 Bear, which can simulate a "Wide-9" technique. Nickel 4-2-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Packers:
Mike McCarthy/Dom Capers (3-4, Man/Zone Mix):
Defensive Playbook: Packers (3-4 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5. Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7) or Dolphins (Dom Capers book, 3-4 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5. Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Panthers:
Ron Rivera/Steve Wilks (4-3, Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Vikings (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 51% (Nickel 3-3-5 and Quarter 3-1-7 should be favored)

Patriots:
Bill Belichick/Matt Patricia (Hybrid (Grr.), Man/Zone Mix):
Defensive Playbook: This is the only team for which I'll do this: Ravens (3-4 book with a 4-3 Under set and 46 Bear and Normal. Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5 and 1-5-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7) or Patriots (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 1-5-5, 1-5-5 Prowl, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6, Quarter 3-1-7) OR Jets (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5, 1-5-5, 1-5-5 Prowl. Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7).
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 51% (Nickel 1-5-5 and Quarter 3-1-7 should be favored)

Raiders:
Jack Del Rio/Ken Norton (4-3 Under, Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Bears (4-3 with 46 Bear, Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7) or Jaguars (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7).
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 51% (Nickel 3-3-5 and Quarter 3-1-7 should be favored)

Rams:
Sean McVay/Wade Phillips (3-4, Man):
Defensive Playbook: Chargers (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 2-4-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Ravens:
John Harbaugh/Dean Pees (3-4, Man/Zone Mix):
Defensive Playbook: Patriots (Dean Pees' book. 3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 1-5-5, 1-5-5 Prowl, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 51% (Nickel 1-5-5 and Quarter 3-1-7 should be favored)

Redskins:
Jay Gruden/Greg Manusky (3-4, Cover 3 Zone, some Cover 1 Man):
Defensive Playbook: 49ers (3-4 book with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 2-4-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Saints:
Sean Payton/Dennis Allen (4-3, Cover 2 Zone/Cover 3 Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Saints (4-3 book with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 51% (Nickel 3-3-5 and Quarter 3-1-7 should be favored)

Seahawks:
Pete Carroll/Kris Richard (4-3 Under, Cover 3 Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Bengals (4-3 book with 46 Bear, Normal, Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 4-2-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Steelers:
Mike Tomlin/Keith Butler (3-4, Man/Zone Mix):
Defensive Playbook: 3-4 (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5, 1-5-5, 1-5-5 Prowl, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6 and Quarter 3-1-7) or Patriots (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, no 3-3-5, 1-5-5, 1-5-5 Prowl, Dime 4-1-6, Dollar 3-2-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 2-4-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Texans:
Bill O'Brien/Mike Vrabel (3-4, Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Steelers (3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 2-4-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Titans:
Mike Mularkey/Dick LeBeau (Cover 1 Man/Cover 2 Man/Cover 2 Zone/Cover 3 Zone):
Defensive Playbook: Steelers (Dick LeBeau's book. 3-4 with Nickel 2-4-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6 and Dollar 3-2-6. Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 49% (Nickel 2-4-5 and Dime 4-1-6 should be favored)

Vikings:
Mike Zimmer/George Edwards (4-3, Press-Man):
Defensive Playbook: Bills (4-3 with Nickel 4-2-5, 3-3-5, Dime 4-1-6, Quarter 3-1-7)
Pass/Run Defense Ratio: 51% (Nickel 3-3-5 and Quarter 3-1-7 should be favored)

Please review this list and if you don't agree on a coach, let me know.
Semper fi
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Always have a plan. And a backup plan. And backups to the backup.
And be able to improvise.

User avatar
BUS36
Hall of Fame
Posts: 3794
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:57 am
Location: Springfield,Va.

Re: Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Postby BUS36 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:29 pm

looks good with the Steelers Defense: 3-4 or the Patriots 3-4.
Image
I bleed BLACK N GOLD

Bovell
Rookie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:27 pm

Re: Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Postby Bovell » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:53 pm

Not sure if you're still investigating this, but as I recall, moonbax settled on 53 Offensive Aggression as producing the "best" results for QB completion rates. From his testing, this OA value was fixed across coaches, while Pass/Run ratios gave them variability. But I have to wonder how independent that was relative to his 34 QB Accuracy, 37 WR Catching, and 99 Intentional Grounding. As far as I can tell, those first two settings are the only ones that deviate from the relative consensus around a good number of the other sliders (of course they are also probably the two most important, other than DEF Awareness).

I think the idea of 53 OA with low QB Acc/WR Catch and high Int. Ground. values was to force the AI into a shorter passing game, given that Madden 08 is plagued by those obnoxious long bombs. I don't do enough testing myself to know whether or not this was the most graceful solution to that problem, but I do recall still having substantial problems with completion rates in a different way, with passes being too quick and receivers dropping easy catches. While I am attracted to his slider settings (which mostly mirror cdcool and your own outside of a few alterations), I am willing to sacrifice smooth animations and gameflow for the greater good of realistic stats.

Great work in any case. Always appreciate someone trying to improve Madden 08 as an effective simulator of the current NFL.

User avatar
jose21crisis
Hall of Fame
Posts: 1547
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:14 am

Re: Analyzing Offensive and Defensive Philosophies

Postby jose21crisis » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:08 pm

Bovell wrote:Not sure if you're still investigating this, but as I recall, moonbax settled on 53 Offensive Aggression as producing the "best" results for QB completion rates. From his testing, this OA value was fixed across coaches, while Pass/Run ratios gave them variability. But I have to wonder how independent that was relative to his 34 QB Accuracy, 37 WR Catching, and 99 Intentional Grounding. As far as I can tell, those first two settings are the only ones that deviate from the relative consensus around a good number of the other sliders (of course they are also probably the two most important, other than DEF Awareness).

I think the idea of 53 OA with low QB Acc/WR Catch and high Int. Ground. values was to force the AI into a shorter passing game, given that Madden 08 is plagued by those obnoxious long bombs. I don't do enough testing myself to know whether or not this was the most graceful solution to that problem, but I do recall still having substantial problems with completion rates in a different way, with passes being too quick and receivers dropping easy catches. While I am attracted to his slider settings (which mostly mirror cdcool and your own outside of a few alterations), I am willing to sacrifice smooth animations and gameflow for the greater good of realistic stats.

Great work in any case. Always appreciate someone trying to improve Madden 08 as an effective simulator of the current NFL.


Hi,

Yeah, I'm still working on this. So far, I need to do some research on offensive tendencies (Which to me is tougher than defensive ones) as well as the probable 2018 schemes.

I think, in moonbax's sliders, the main problem is the 34 QB Accuracy and 99 Intentional Grounding. Sure, higher Offensive Aggression does result in more calls with shorter routes, but the main offenders are those 2 sliders, along with Pass Block and the Pass Interference sliders.

The 34 QB Accuracy forces QBs to throw it short, because it doesn't allow anything deeper than 20-30 yards. So, there are no bombs, but at the same time there is nothing too deep like streaks, posts, corners or fades.

The 99 Intentional Grounding slider doesn't affect deep passes a whole lot, but it does affect the QB's patience when it comes to throwing the ball away or scrambling. I stopped using 99 because it results in too many throwaways and way too many scrambles by QBs, which result in more sacks because the QB can't get out of the pocket correctly and gets sacked. Right now I'm playing with 50.

The Pass Block slider has 2 effects. First, it alters pass blocking ability of every player, as well as increasing suction blocking animations (This is a need for the blocker AI to work, without suction blocking D-Linemen and blitzers would just run past a O-Lineman ready to block). But it also affects QBs. QBs in this game are extremely sensitive to pressure. Allowing a cornerback to get too close to the QB, even if that CB is pancaked by the right tackle, results in the QB getting jumping and making bad reads and poor throws. The problem is that moonbax's set calls for Pass Blocking to be 18, which results in the D-Linemen being right in the QBs face pretty much every time. Just try to count how many times Al Michaels says "Under Pressure" per pass play. I set Pass Block at 35 for that reason.

Finally, you have the Pass Interference sliders. Both control how aggressively a player will play the ball. Right now, I have OPI set at 99 and DPI set at 95. Now, I'm not entirely sure if this increases or decreases Spectacular Catch animations (Like the one handed catch) or Jumping Catch animations. I haven't tested that. But what I do know is that, when OPI is higher offensive players are more likely to make a catch over the defender. This is good for QBs, since it increases completion %, but bad for defensive players since it increases catches allowed. It doesn't seem to alter interceptions, it might even increase them.

EDIT: Also, I don't think 33 Defensive Awareness makes too much of an effect on QB completion %. It might even make offenses overpowered, as with 33 D Awareness, DBs take a lot of time reacting to passes. Which is annoying since in the NFL, receivers don't get a whole lot of separation when in man coverage. Usually, just enough separation to being able to catch the ball and turn the field. I have not tested the D Awareness slider (I did research the effects of Awareness on man coverage), but I will give a 50 D Awareness some testing time.
Semper fi
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Always have a plan. And a backup plan. And backups to the backup.
And be able to improvise.


Return to “Sliders and adjustments”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests