Model / TMdl Editing

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trey31
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Re: Model / TMdl Editing

Postby trey31 » Sun May 07, 2017 10:13 am

StingRay68 wrote:Well for now I will work on being able to add/delete coordinates for a given model.
Until we have a better understanding of how those vertexes and textures are supposed to be formatted for use in modeling software, any support for that will have to wait.


I'm going to seek outside help in understanding what we're working with and hopefully someone can point us to something that connects some of these dots together.

Ultimately the Riddell Revo Speed and Revo Speed Flex 3D models I tracked down a while back are my main motivation for interest in modding player models. But there are several issues I didn't take into consideration early on.

Rhetorical questions at this point in time:

a) Will we be able to add a significant amount of new model data in the tmdl files, or will we be stuck simply changing only the existing data/vertice/face points? If it's the latter, facemask modding is essentially dead in the water. I tried smoothing the existing facemask model I pulled with the model ripper app and there is not much that can be done with the shape due to the use of elongated triangles and lack of cylindrical vertices points. At one point I started adding vertical points to create horizontal tubes, but I had to remove lots of horizontal points to do so, and felt the best option was just to start from scratch with >8-point cylindrical tubes vs the 4-point elongated isosceles ones.

b) Will we be able to add a new slots for new helmets and facemasks in database/roster files? If not we're stuck replacing existing helmets and facemasks, which doesn't sound bad on the surface, but the logistics of implementing the correct usage in-game (proper mask with proper helmet) could be an issue, especially when it comes to rookie random equipment generation in franchise files vs just fixing the issue once in roster files.

c) Player models; even tweaking them, vs redrawing parts of them, may never be feasible due to the in-game model sliders and the way rookies are randomly given different slider points for different model sections. Also the skeleton issue alone could kill it.
My M08 mod work is all open-source to anyone who wants to use it in any way, no restrictions or permissions necessary.

Re: Model / TMdl Editing

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StingRay68
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Re: Model / TMdl Editing

Postby StingRay68 » Sun May 07, 2017 11:40 am

trey31 wrote:a) Will we be able to add a significant amount of new model data in the tmdl files


No guarantees at this point, but based on my experience, Yes.

trey31 wrote:b) Will we be able to add a new slots for new helmets and facemasks in database/roster files?


Directly answering your question...Expanding the range of values in the database...No, not at this time. It is possible, but there is no currently available tool that would allow you to be able to do this.

Indirectly, if you mean is it possible to have more options than we do right now?
I cannot give you a clear answer on that, as there are several factors to consider. I don't know where those models are in the dat files. It depends on where those models are, and how they are being accessed given a particular value from the player table fields. It also depends on how many different models are in use currently. I dont know those answers.
The currently available values in the database for the "helmet type" (PHLM) field in madden08 is 0-7
for facemask (PFMK) it is 0-15
If there are currently 8 helmets and 16 facemask models already in use, then no.

trey31 wrote:c) Player models; even tweaking them, vs redrawing parts of them, may never be feasible due to the in-game model sliders and the way rookies are randomly given different slider points for different model sections. Also the skeleton issue alone could kill it.


I'm not willing to invest my time in trying to modify player models unless we had a team of dedicated modders and preferably another dedicated programmer. Being able to truly customize those would be difficult. Also, I am not sure if the animations are directly dependent on the models' skeletons, but I'm guessing that they would be.

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Re: Model / TMdl Editing

Postby trey31 » Sun May 07, 2017 5:22 pm

StingRay68 wrote:
trey31 wrote:a) Will we be able to add a significant amount of new model data in the tmdl files


No guarantees at this point, but based on my experience, Yes.


Ok that would be awesome. Creating models from scratch is not my forte, but I have been able to add new vertex points and connect them to existing ones (like manually smoothing the wire frame model; the more vertices/faces of a model, the smoother the surface is when rendered, in most cases it looks more realistic) and also I've used the preset smoothing options to good effect as well.

StingRay68 wrote:
trey31 wrote:b) Will we be able to add a new slots for new helmets and facemasks in database/roster files?


Directly answering your question...Expanding the range of values in the database...No, not at this time. It is possible, but there is no currently available tool that would allow you to be able to do this.

Indirectly, if you mean is it possible to have more options than we do right now?
I cannot give you a clear answer on that, as there are several factors to consider. I don't know where those models are in the dat files. It depends on where those models are, and how they are being accessed given a particular value from the player table fields. It also depends on how many different models are in use currently. I dont know those answers.
The currently available values in the database for the "helmet type" (PHLM) field in madden08 is 0-7
for facemask (PFMK) it is 0-15
If there are currently 8 helmets and 16 facemask models already in use, then no.


I'm only aware of the 4 helmet types currently. If there are 4 unused slots available, I've got two prerendered Revo models already.

Not sure on facemasks; however there are 3 right off the bat that I think we could repurpose without anyone missing them. But I'm not sure how we'd fix the issue with rookies getting randomly assigned equipment values. I'm willing to chalk that up to "probably fixable later" and just focus on the part about getting a model into the game itself.

StingRay68 wrote:
trey31 wrote:c) Player models; even tweaking them, vs redrawing parts of them, may never be feasible due to the in-game model sliders and the way rookies are randomly given different slider points for different model sections. Also the skeleton issue alone could kill it.


I'm not willing to invest my time in trying to modify player models unless we had a team of dedicated modders and preferably another dedicated programmer. Being able to truly customize those would be difficult. Also, I am not sure if the animations are directly dependent on the models' skeletons, but I'm guessing that they would be.


100% agreed; and to be honest the shoulder pads, legs, arms, calves, and thigh pads aren't nearly as "off" as the triangular v/f models of facemasks. Those are just... really bad. Especially when you zoom in with blender/3ds max. Serious "what drugs were they doing when they designed this" thoughts come to mind. Like I said before though, I'm 99% sure some of the facemask models and several face textures are straight out of Madden 2001 and were possibly designed pre-2000 when PS, N64, and Dreamcast were the current generation of consoles.
My M08 mod work is all open-source to anyone who wants to use it in any way, no restrictions or permissions necessary.

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Re: Model / TMdl Editing

Postby mee » Sat May 13, 2017 10:41 pm

StingRay68 wrote:Directly answering your question...Expanding the range of values in the database...No, not at this time. It is possible, but there is no currently available tool that would allow you to be able to do this.

Indirectly, if you mean is it possible to have more options than we do right now?
I cannot give you a clear answer on that, as there are several factors to consider. I don't know where those models are in the dat files. It depends on where those models are, and how they are being accessed given a particular value from the player table fields. It also depends on how many different models are in use currently. I dont know those answers.
The currently available values in the database for the "helmet type" (PHLM) field in madden08 is 0-7
for facemask (PFMK) it is 0-15
If there are currently 8 helmets and 16 facemask models already in use, then no.

1)Files 2-5 in PLADATA.dat I think. Contains models name Shutt and Adams and stuff like that. I definitely saw all the facemasks there.

2) Only 5 helmets as of now.
So the Giants traded Beckham....

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Re: Model / TMdl Editing

Postby StingRay68 » Sun May 14, 2017 8:01 am

mee wrote:1)Files 2-5 in PLADATA.dat I think. Contains models name Shutt and Adams and stuff like that. I definitely saw all the facemasks there.
2) Only 5 helmets as of now.


Well those are player models, but it looks like the helmet and facemask models are contained there as well.

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Re: Model / TMdl Editing

Postby mee » Sun May 14, 2017 1:13 pm

StingRay68 wrote:Well those are player models, but it looks like the helmet and facemask models are contained there as well.

All the equipment is in there, so it makes sense the helmet and facemasks would be too.
So the Giants traded Beckham....

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Re: Model / TMdl Editing

Postby ThePurplePeopleEater » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:12 pm

I suspect that little progress has been made in this project, correct?
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Re: Model / TMdl Editing

Postby trey31 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:39 pm

ThePurplePeopleEater wrote:I suspect that little progress has been made in this project, correct?


I did not get any of my anticipated down time in June or July. So I've had next to no time to work on anything for months now. However, winter is coming. Usually around Thanksgiving I have lots of down time.
My M08 mod work is all open-source to anyone who wants to use it in any way, no restrictions or permissions necessary.

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Re: Model / TMdl Editing

Postby rogerjinx » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:27 am

I am trying to apply this tutorial to tell the game how to display the MMAP on the models. I understand on how to plot the points but when I load the stadium, it throws EndofStreamException. Do I have to open only the TMdl part or the wholes stadium.dat?

Edit: I opened the original uncompressed stadium and it didnt throw me some EndofStreamException. Maybe altering the MMAP texture sizes and dimension can affect this the application. I'll start working on the original stadium.

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Re: Model / TMdl Editing

Postby elguapo » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:27 pm

StingRay68 wrote:Possibly for the face files though. There is a section called "Loca" (Location ?) at the end of the player faces. That has something to do with the shape of the face. I havent really messed with it. I do remember elguapo and I started inserting values from different faces into a test face and the result was sometimes it ended up looking deformed.
I used to have a few face files for reference, but cant find them at the moment. But I believe that the length of the data would be long enough to be able to include 4-5 geometry points (not confirming that is what it is though).



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