This thread will be a thread dedicated to all findings about building playbooks. Feel free to share every discovery you have made about building playbooks and how specific things about making the plays effect M08's gameplay. I'll have a few paragraphs tomorrow and I'll continue to update this thread as I go on building the 2023 Playbooks. With each playbook I learn at least one new thing and I'm 121 plays into the 4th book.
This thread can be used as reference for tips, tricks, and secrets about building playbooks in M08.
Making Playbooks: Tips and Unorthodox Methods
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TheRareButter
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TheRareButter
- MVP
- Posts: 613
- Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 2:18 pm
Re: What I've Learned While Making Playbooks:
Alright, since there's so much to say I'll just get right into it and do my best to make it easy to digest without being overwhelming. Each paragraph or indention will have a specific purpose.
The base playbooks fade routes are just below 32 yards in length, this limits how deep QB throw the ball. When the WR reaches the end of his route, he'll "break off your route and get open". This goes for all routes, especially crossing ones. Make use of all the field and extend every route so the WRs don't abandon the play so early. If you extend the route to 42 yards in the playbook editor, some QBs will be able to make 75 yards (in the air) passes instead of the M08 normal of 50-60 yards. Basically the ball is in the air longer, so the pass becomes deeper. Any deeper than 42 yards then the play art will break.
Here's an example of the coding for a Fade route from the left side of the field:
Route Data for WR#1 (poso = 4)
0) Perform Pass Route: 2.5 Yards; 115 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed (outside leverage)
1) Perform Pass Route: 31.875 Yards; 90 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed (max fade distance)
2) Perform Pass Route: 10 Yards; 90 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed (the stack to extend it)
3) Receiver Get Open
Jet Sweep. In 2007 that play wasn't very popular in the NFL and EA didn't have it programmed/optimized very well. The defense is on top of that play 9/10. Instead of using the "End Around" or "Reverse" PLYT in the editor, use 19 (QB Run). Just trust me on this one, the defense reacts in a much more modern way. The PLYT's have a say in how the defense responds to a play.
Using the QB play action code "Hand Out" instead of "Hand In" increases the chance of the defense biting on the PA.
1 step drops do not work, point blank. 3 step drops work, but the way the QB AI works is the longer the QB has the ball, the better his progression and reads. The deeper the drop the better his read. For this reason, I recommend the 5 step drop on all passing plays, it doesn't effect the timing in a negative way and the QB evades the D Line "pressure" factor when making his passes. Works well even with Quick Curl plays.
Screen Plays are a pain to make work for the CPU. Here's my recipe:
1. Lineman pass block 0.5 seconds, run 12 yards to the screen side directly at 3 o'clock/9 o'clock, Then run block.
2. QB 5 step drop from shotgun. The QB's drop depth creates a vertical stretch on the field.
3. Give the HB 100% chance of being thrown to in the PLPD data and 0 to every other WR.
4. The HB's route is the most important becuase how he catches the ball dictates how he runs after the catch. Here an example of the coding that I've found works best after hours and hours of testing: (HB Slip Screen Left)
Route Data for HB#1 (poso = 1)
0) Delay: 0.5 Seconds
1) Perform Pass Route: 3 Yards; 149 Degrees; 60 Percent Speed
2) Perform Pass Route: 5.25 Yards; 180 Degrees; 51 Percent Speed
3) Receiver Get Open
The Playart looks like this:
It's an untraditional method to enforce the game to work correctly. Using the "Hitch","Curl", or "WR Screen" route cuts like the base game screen plays causes the CPU HB to run directly toward the middle of the defense instead of toward the sidelines following his blocks. My coding ensures that all of the field gets used and the HB runs up the field after the catch, the QB's pass trajectory with that route ensures the lineman are blocking from the outside, the defense is coming from the inside of the field and the HB is the farthest from the middle of the play.
Screens from the Pistol typically don't work, the QB feels too much pressure and throws it away almost immediately.
HB Wheel routes (The check down route that the HB decides to catch out of bounds often) can be fixed by dictating his route to go upfield instead of out of bounds. Here's an example the coding:
Route Data for HB#1 (poso = 1)
0) Perform Pass Route: 16.875 Yards; 166 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed
1) Perform Pass Route: 2.5 Yards; 127 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed
2) Perform Pass Route: 5.5 Yards; 101 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed
3) Receiver Get Open
That Route looks like this: (Also notice how the slant stretches across the entire field)
The WR code "Head Turn Route" is one of the options built into NFL Head Coach if anyone if familiar with that game. It's a WR instruction called "Use your speed to get open". Basically the WR focuses on his speed, neglecting his agility and rounds off his route to burn the defense. It works perfectly for crossing routes that don't have a heavy cut needed. Use the Head Turn Route often.
The "90 Degrees Inside" route cut inside is the "Zero" route for those familiar. The WR will make a quick cut in one direction, then spin his body 270 degrees (making a zero or circle) and run the opposite direction. Works for In and Out routes if that's what the play calls for, but don't put it in place of the 90 degree route cut. They have their own places.
For plays like "FB dive HB Flip" use the "HB Dive" PLYT instead of the "Run Outside" one. Think of the PLYT's as how main intention of the defense post snap.
For plays that lineman need to pull, don't make them retreat from the line of scrimmage. Have them "Lead Block" directly to the side they need to go too. Straight up right or left not forwards or backwards. This creates a new sense of realism and trust in the O Line without breaking any gameplay. If your line is pulling then the run blocking lineman will push forward creating space for the quick pullers, if they're blocking a good D Lineman then they'll either remain in the same spot, (Puller will pull without issue) or they be pushed backwards. (Puller will be boxed out and miss his assignment. Doesn't happen often, and the precision of the pullers blocks when using this method is second to none.)
Double PA plays are possible but complicated to pull off. Here's a clip of one for the Cardinals playbook I made. Really just gotta mess with them and think outside the box with the direction and degrees. On that play I had the HB greet the QB at the end of his sweep fake animation which pulled him way off to the side. The HB fake animation brought him back into the pocket, all self automated. The Ravens Playbook clips have some more examples of double hand offs, like "HB Zone Fk Jet" and "Jet Fk Zone" all with 2 hand off animations to freeze the defense.
TEST EVERY SINGLE PLAY BEFORE RELEASING A PLAYBOOK. I usually do it in batches within one formation unless it's a complicated coded play. It's really easy to code a play fine and then have it run like garbage in the game, so make sure it plays properly.
If you have a concept that you're struggling to recreate with your playbooks and there's a playbook that has that concept in it, take a look at the coding of the play and cross reference it.
1. Open up both playbooks and find the plays you're looking for
2. Double click on the players in question for the plays
3. Select "Advanced Options>Edit PSAL"
4. When the window pops up, select "Undo All Changes" and the coding for that player will pop up just like I've posted above.
This is a great way to see how the plays work from within. (and to check and confirm if someone has stolen your plays.)
QB Draw Coding:
Route Data for QB#1 (poso = 0)
0) Delay: 0.5 Seconds
1) Run With Ball
On running plays where WR's run routes instead of block (which happens much more often in the NFL nowadays) take notice of their fatigue levels. Don't make your WR's burn up all their energy on plays where they aren't the biggest factor. Set their speed to 85 instead of the 96 for routes. They still do their job, quickly, but conserve a bit of much needed energy. Here's that coding:
Route Data for WR#2 (poso = 3)
0) Perform Pass Route: 25 Yards; 90 Degrees; 85 Percent Speed
1) Receiver Get Open
The Coach sliders (Aggressive/Conservative and (Run/Pass) have a major role in how the players play.
The "west coast" scheme setting is built wrong IMO. Instead of the safe passing game for weak arm QBs that it is in real life, M08 considers it as "aggressive" and QB's throw the ball quickly, thus not having as much time to make a read leading to INTs. The 5 step drop method could possibly fix that in one simple adjustment.
Some aspects of modern playbooks are simply incompatible with M08 AI directly. The only one I've found so far other than the RPO's and Read Options is the block then release route on this play:
The pass blocking AI in M08 forms a "pocket" so the farther out from the center, the bigger the bend. This puts the TE way out of position for his route to be used at intended, due to his positioning after his blocking assignment. The fix is easy, just give him a flat route after his block, his timing and position fits the play concept perfectly.
When building the play calling AI for the playbooks, don't be perfect with them. Don't be way wrong either though, just allow some wiggle room with a few misplaced play calls here and there. This creates a greater importance for coaches and highlights their attributes. Good coaches call good plays most of the time, bad coach call bad plays sometimes.
PA Screens where more than 2 lineman pull are extremely risky for CPU teams, IMO they're not worth being added to M08.
If you're making many playbooks, export universal routes like Fade's, Corners, Posts, Outs, and Slants. Then it's a simple plug into a new play in a new playbook. Will save you hours of time.
For more complicated plays, like the double hand-off ones, export every player involved in the PA, import them into the new play then simply adjust as needed for the next play with the same PA called for.
For the similar, yet ugly modern day routes such as the left side curl on this play:
Just give them a normal curl. EA is trying to pre build WR juke moves into the routes themselves, they may not work as intended in M08.
The base playbooks fade routes are just below 32 yards in length, this limits how deep QB throw the ball. When the WR reaches the end of his route, he'll "break off your route and get open". This goes for all routes, especially crossing ones. Make use of all the field and extend every route so the WRs don't abandon the play so early. If you extend the route to 42 yards in the playbook editor, some QBs will be able to make 75 yards (in the air) passes instead of the M08 normal of 50-60 yards. Basically the ball is in the air longer, so the pass becomes deeper. Any deeper than 42 yards then the play art will break.
Here's an example of the coding for a Fade route from the left side of the field:
Route Data for WR#1 (poso = 4)
0) Perform Pass Route: 2.5 Yards; 115 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed (outside leverage)
1) Perform Pass Route: 31.875 Yards; 90 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed (max fade distance)
2) Perform Pass Route: 10 Yards; 90 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed (the stack to extend it)
3) Receiver Get Open
Jet Sweep. In 2007 that play wasn't very popular in the NFL and EA didn't have it programmed/optimized very well. The defense is on top of that play 9/10. Instead of using the "End Around" or "Reverse" PLYT in the editor, use 19 (QB Run). Just trust me on this one, the defense reacts in a much more modern way. The PLYT's have a say in how the defense responds to a play.
Using the QB play action code "Hand Out" instead of "Hand In" increases the chance of the defense biting on the PA.
1 step drops do not work, point blank. 3 step drops work, but the way the QB AI works is the longer the QB has the ball, the better his progression and reads. The deeper the drop the better his read. For this reason, I recommend the 5 step drop on all passing plays, it doesn't effect the timing in a negative way and the QB evades the D Line "pressure" factor when making his passes. Works well even with Quick Curl plays.
Screen Plays are a pain to make work for the CPU. Here's my recipe:
1. Lineman pass block 0.5 seconds, run 12 yards to the screen side directly at 3 o'clock/9 o'clock, Then run block.
2. QB 5 step drop from shotgun. The QB's drop depth creates a vertical stretch on the field.
3. Give the HB 100% chance of being thrown to in the PLPD data and 0 to every other WR.
4. The HB's route is the most important becuase how he catches the ball dictates how he runs after the catch. Here an example of the coding that I've found works best after hours and hours of testing: (HB Slip Screen Left)
Route Data for HB#1 (poso = 1)
0) Delay: 0.5 Seconds
1) Perform Pass Route: 3 Yards; 149 Degrees; 60 Percent Speed
2) Perform Pass Route: 5.25 Yards; 180 Degrees; 51 Percent Speed
3) Receiver Get Open
The Playart looks like this:
- Madden Playbook Editor - C__Users_willt_Documents_Madden NFL 08_Playbooks_2023Falcons.pbo 2_8_2023 5_06_11 PM.png (159.91 KiB) Viewed 1641 times
It's an untraditional method to enforce the game to work correctly. Using the "Hitch","Curl", or "WR Screen" route cuts like the base game screen plays causes the CPU HB to run directly toward the middle of the defense instead of toward the sidelines following his blocks. My coding ensures that all of the field gets used and the HB runs up the field after the catch, the QB's pass trajectory with that route ensures the lineman are blocking from the outside, the defense is coming from the inside of the field and the HB is the farthest from the middle of the play.
Screens from the Pistol typically don't work, the QB feels too much pressure and throws it away almost immediately.
HB Wheel routes (The check down route that the HB decides to catch out of bounds often) can be fixed by dictating his route to go upfield instead of out of bounds. Here's an example the coding:
Route Data for HB#1 (poso = 1)
0) Perform Pass Route: 16.875 Yards; 166 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed
1) Perform Pass Route: 2.5 Yards; 127 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed
2) Perform Pass Route: 5.5 Yards; 101 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed
3) Receiver Get Open
That Route looks like this: (Also notice how the slant stretches across the entire field)
- Madden Playbook Editor - C__Users_willt_Documents_Madden NFL 08_Playbooks_2023Falcons.pbo 2_8_2023 5_34_30 PM.png (184.72 KiB) Viewed 1641 times
The WR code "Head Turn Route" is one of the options built into NFL Head Coach if anyone if familiar with that game. It's a WR instruction called "Use your speed to get open". Basically the WR focuses on his speed, neglecting his agility and rounds off his route to burn the defense. It works perfectly for crossing routes that don't have a heavy cut needed. Use the Head Turn Route often.
The "90 Degrees Inside" route cut inside is the "Zero" route for those familiar. The WR will make a quick cut in one direction, then spin his body 270 degrees (making a zero or circle) and run the opposite direction. Works for In and Out routes if that's what the play calls for, but don't put it in place of the 90 degree route cut. They have their own places.
For plays like "FB dive HB Flip" use the "HB Dive" PLYT instead of the "Run Outside" one. Think of the PLYT's as how main intention of the defense post snap.
For plays that lineman need to pull, don't make them retreat from the line of scrimmage. Have them "Lead Block" directly to the side they need to go too. Straight up right or left not forwards or backwards. This creates a new sense of realism and trust in the O Line without breaking any gameplay. If your line is pulling then the run blocking lineman will push forward creating space for the quick pullers, if they're blocking a good D Lineman then they'll either remain in the same spot, (Puller will pull without issue) or they be pushed backwards. (Puller will be boxed out and miss his assignment. Doesn't happen often, and the precision of the pullers blocks when using this method is second to none.)
Double PA plays are possible but complicated to pull off. Here's a clip of one for the Cardinals playbook I made. Really just gotta mess with them and think outside the box with the direction and degrees. On that play I had the HB greet the QB at the end of his sweep fake animation which pulled him way off to the side. The HB fake animation brought him back into the pocket, all self automated. The Ravens Playbook clips have some more examples of double hand offs, like "HB Zone Fk Jet" and "Jet Fk Zone" all with 2 hand off animations to freeze the defense.
TEST EVERY SINGLE PLAY BEFORE RELEASING A PLAYBOOK. I usually do it in batches within one formation unless it's a complicated coded play. It's really easy to code a play fine and then have it run like garbage in the game, so make sure it plays properly.
If you have a concept that you're struggling to recreate with your playbooks and there's a playbook that has that concept in it, take a look at the coding of the play and cross reference it.
1. Open up both playbooks and find the plays you're looking for
2. Double click on the players in question for the plays
3. Select "Advanced Options>Edit PSAL"
4. When the window pops up, select "Undo All Changes" and the coding for that player will pop up just like I've posted above.
This is a great way to see how the plays work from within. (and to check and confirm if someone has stolen your plays.)
QB Draw Coding:
Route Data for QB#1 (poso = 0)
0) Delay: 0.5 Seconds
1) Run With Ball
On running plays where WR's run routes instead of block (which happens much more often in the NFL nowadays) take notice of their fatigue levels. Don't make your WR's burn up all their energy on plays where they aren't the biggest factor. Set their speed to 85 instead of the 96 for routes. They still do their job, quickly, but conserve a bit of much needed energy. Here's that coding:
Route Data for WR#2 (poso = 3)
0) Perform Pass Route: 25 Yards; 90 Degrees; 85 Percent Speed
1) Receiver Get Open
The Coach sliders (Aggressive/Conservative and (Run/Pass) have a major role in how the players play.
The "west coast" scheme setting is built wrong IMO. Instead of the safe passing game for weak arm QBs that it is in real life, M08 considers it as "aggressive" and QB's throw the ball quickly, thus not having as much time to make a read leading to INTs. The 5 step drop method could possibly fix that in one simple adjustment.
Some aspects of modern playbooks are simply incompatible with M08 AI directly. The only one I've found so far other than the RPO's and Read Options is the block then release route on this play:
- singleback_deuce-close_pa-boot-slide.png (47.2 KiB) Viewed 1641 times
The pass blocking AI in M08 forms a "pocket" so the farther out from the center, the bigger the bend. This puts the TE way out of position for his route to be used at intended, due to his positioning after his blocking assignment. The fix is easy, just give him a flat route after his block, his timing and position fits the play concept perfectly.
When building the play calling AI for the playbooks, don't be perfect with them. Don't be way wrong either though, just allow some wiggle room with a few misplaced play calls here and there. This creates a greater importance for coaches and highlights their attributes. Good coaches call good plays most of the time, bad coach call bad plays sometimes.
PA Screens where more than 2 lineman pull are extremely risky for CPU teams, IMO they're not worth being added to M08.
If you're making many playbooks, export universal routes like Fade's, Corners, Posts, Outs, and Slants. Then it's a simple plug into a new play in a new playbook. Will save you hours of time.
For more complicated plays, like the double hand-off ones, export every player involved in the PA, import them into the new play then simply adjust as needed for the next play with the same PA called for.
For the similar, yet ugly modern day routes such as the left side curl on this play:
Just give them a normal curl. EA is trying to pre build WR juke moves into the routes themselves, they may not work as intended in M08.
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TheRareButter
- MVP
- Posts: 613
- Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 2:18 pm
Re: What I've Learned While Making Playbooks:
Some things just don't make any sense with playbooks. I had a jet sweep play that worked 100% of the time normally but only 3/10 times when flipped despite the exact same coding and player positioning.
Plays are animations based, triggering animations are often the goal and what I'm trying to do when messing with PA, double hand offs, or jet sweep.
Animations are directional and don't always translate when flipped, idk why but that's what I've learned.
Plays are animations based, triggering animations are often the goal and what I'm trying to do when messing with PA, double hand offs, or jet sweep.
Animations are directional and don't always translate when flipped, idk why but that's what I've learned.
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TheRareButter
- MVP
- Posts: 613
- Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 2:18 pm
Re: Making Playbooks: Tips and Unorthodox Methods
For RPO's I suggest just making a PA Pass play. Bubble screen work well in Madden 08 but you've got to direct the WR to the sideline a bit further and then WR lead block then run block coding for the other WRs. Madden AI not making use of the full field has always bothered me and this enforces it the play to be run like in real life. Here are 2 plays that were originally RPO's but turned into screen/quick passes for M08.
This WR code works best IMO, then the play art for it:
Route Data for WR#1 (poso = 4)
0) Perform Pass Route: 3.125 Yards; 233 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed
1) Perform Pass Route: 4 Yards; 183 Degrees; 85 Percent Speed
2) Perform Pass Route: 3.125 Yards; 160 Degrees; 49 Percent Speed
3) Receiver Get Open
Here's another example, this time from the outside coming toward the middle:
Route Data for WR#2 (poso = 3)
0) Perform Pass Route: 2 Yards; 315 Degrees; 24 Percent Speed
1) Perform Pass Route: 2.375 Yards; 352 Degrees; 10 Percent Speed
2) Receiver Get Open
It seems weird and unconventional, but it plays well. Here's that play art:
This WR code works best IMO, then the play art for it:
Route Data for WR#1 (poso = 4)
0) Perform Pass Route: 3.125 Yards; 233 Degrees; 96 Percent Speed
1) Perform Pass Route: 4 Yards; 183 Degrees; 85 Percent Speed
2) Perform Pass Route: 3.125 Yards; 160 Degrees; 49 Percent Speed
3) Receiver Get Open
- Madden Playbook Editor - C__Users_willt_Documents_Madden 23-08 Playbook Project_No AI Playbooks_2023Bills.pbo 2_13_2023 5_19_24 PM.png (152.38 KiB) Viewed 1559 times
Here's another example, this time from the outside coming toward the middle:
Route Data for WR#2 (poso = 3)
0) Perform Pass Route: 2 Yards; 315 Degrees; 24 Percent Speed
1) Perform Pass Route: 2.375 Yards; 352 Degrees; 10 Percent Speed
2) Receiver Get Open
It seems weird and unconventional, but it plays well. Here's that play art:
- Attachments
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- Madden Playbook Editor - C__Users_willt_Documents_Madden 23-08 Playbook Project_No AI Playbooks_2023Bills.pbo 2_13_2023 5_16_52 PM.png (139.96 KiB) Viewed 1559 times
Re: Making Playbooks: Tips and Unorthodox Methods
What playbook editor are you showing in the above thread? I downloaded ver 2.5 and it looks nothing like what your pictures above show.
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TheRareButter
- MVP
- Posts: 613
- Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 2:18 pm
Re: Making Playbooks: Tips and Unorthodox Methods
sflcurt wrote:What playbook editor are you showing in the above thread? I downloaded ver 2.5 and it looks nothing like what your pictures above show.
I use 1.2 for making playbooks and 2.5 for building PBAI. Those are PBE 1.2
Re: Making Playbooks: Tips and Unorthodox Methods
Thank you regarding which playbook editor to use. I will try that
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Austinmario13
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Re: Making Playbooks: Tips and Unorthodox Methods
Regarding the length of routes. Madden tends to use almost 67 yards. It's usually goes 4 yards, then 31.875, then 30. Yes the playart breaks, but the play doesn't.
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TheRareButter
- MVP
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- Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 2:18 pm
Re: Making Playbooks: Tips and Unorthodox Methods
Austinmario13 wrote:Regarding the length of routes. Madden tends to use almost 67 yards. It's usually goes 4 yards, then 31.875, then 30. Yes the players breaks, but the play doesn't.
Yeah I realized that a few days ago with the NFL Head Coach playbooks, guess it applies only to custom playbooks and not base game ones.
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BrickTamland
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Re: Making Playbooks: Tips and Unorthodox Methods
I do have a question, which I will post here since it's a very detailed thread about play designs. Whenever I design a play in a created formation, I cannot flip it as the routes are all messed up. What am I doing wrong ? I suppose it has to do with players alignment and such, but I don't know what to do. I can modify a play in a existing formation and flip it no problem, but cannot do it in a created formation.
Edit :
I get it now. I mostly use the PBE 2.5 and everything I needed to flip created formations was in the Alpha Playbook Editor. The modding possibilities for this game are truly phenomenal.
Edit :
I get it now. I mostly use the PBE 2.5 and everything I needed to flip created formations was in the Alpha Playbook Editor. The modding possibilities for this game are truly phenomenal.
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