TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

rahien.din
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TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

Postby rahien.din » Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:14 pm

Auburn is switching to a 4-2-5 this season, so I've been interested in the way this playbook works. If you read a lot of the coaches' blogs, the 4-2-5 is all over places like RUNCODHIT, brophyfootball, and Coach Hoover, so there are a lot of resources out there.

Most of it is oriented toward a TCU / Gary Patterson 4-2-5, which is an interesting system. The heart of the 4-2-5 system is aligning properly, "aligning to win" ;TCU takes that a step further and allows the front six to align toward the running strength, and the backs to align to the passing strength, for the most part completely independent of one another. You can find adjustments to the run at http://runcodhit.blogspot.com/2010/07/4-2-5-alignments-part-ii.html, and you can find passing alignments at http://runcodhit.blogspot.com/2010/07/4-2-5-alignments-part-i.html. It boils down to this for the front six :

  • Defensive line techniques, weak to strong are 9, 1, 3, 9, just like an over front. TCU also has a "power" call which puts the 1-technique into a 3-technique.
  • Both linebackers are aligned in 30 techniques in base set. When the defense shifts into a eight-man box, the weak safety moves into the box, the weak backer goes heads-up over center, and the strong backer moves into the strong B-gap.
  • Versus a 4x1 set, the strong backer moves outside the box to guard the innermost receiver or be the wall coverage, and the weak backer goes heads-up over the center.

That's it. The defensive line needs to be able to get into an over front to either side, or into a 9-3-3-9 alignment, and the linebackers have only some very basic alignments. So I made the following set of shifts for the D-line :

  • Base = over front to the side of the playcall
  • Left = over front, strong left
  • Right = over front, strong right
  • Up = 9-3-3-9 "power" alignment
  • Down = pinched line

[Note : when I say right, I mean "screen right" or "controller right," not the "ROLB" kind of right.]

I made this set for the backers :

  • Base = each LB in a 30 technique
  • Left = scoot left
  • Right = scoot right
  • Up = WB over center, SB outside the box strong
  • Down = LB move closer to LOS and into B-gaps

The left and right audibles are the same, whichever way the play is called. This way, the line and the backers can adjust to meet any set without flipping the play. The advantage of this is that the playcall is always toward the passing strength of the formation, which is necessary because passing alignments are more tricky to program. Without getting into too much detail (you can find it at the RUNCODHIT link above,) there are three necessary alignments :

  1. Versus a pro set, the weak safety eight yards high outside the tackle box, the free safety high over the 1-technique, and the strong safety on the line outside the tight end to play run force or SCIF coverage
  2. "Scoot", a run-heavy front with the weak safety moving into the box stacked over the weak OT, the backers shifting strong, the free safety over the 1-technique, and the strong safety playing force
  3. Versus spread sets, the weak and free safeties about ten yards deep (weak safety a little deeper) and the strong safety moved into the slot at just about LB depth

Obviously TCU has a more complicated set of alignments based on field and boundary sides, wide receiver splits, etc. But we need to simplify that, because the DB's only have two true shifts, loose and tight, because one shift is a blitz and one shift is shadow. So, the set of shifts I created is a reasonable simplification, and anyway Madden will fix some of that when the backs shadow receivers. Here's the set of shifts for backs :

  • Base = versus pro
  • Up = versus spread
  • Down = scoot
  • Left = blitz, with both outside safeties into the box, free safety closing down, and LB's pinching

Now here's the trick : I am making my plays as though the passing strength is to the right every time. This means that you may have to flip the play to align to passing or running strength, then audible your D-line and backs into the proper alignment. The basic idea is to figure out which side you need to have the strong safety - on very heavy running sets this will be the run strength, but otherwise will be the passing strength - then fix his alignment, then get everything else taken care of. My progression is :

  1. Identify the running and passing strength. Flip the play if it needs to be flipped.
  2. Shift the backs to get them into proper coverage
  3. Shift the D-line to put them in position for run support
  4. Shift the linebackers if necessary

    Some examples :
  • Offense comes out in I-form pro (21 personnel, I-form with TE to right and a WR to either side) : don't change anything, the base alignment of the defense is made to target this formation.
  • Offense comes out in I-form pro, but moves the TE across the formation : flip the play.
  • Offense comes out in I-form pro, but moves a WR from the right to the left, shifting into I-form twins : the passing strength has changed, so you have to flip the play. Shift the backs up into a spread set so the safety over the slot can cover more effectively. Notice that your D-line has shifted into an over front to the left (because the play is flipped) and shift them right into an over front to the right, because the run strength of the formation is still to the right.
  • Offense comes out in I-form pro, but shifts into a five-wide set, three receivers to the left and two receivers to the right : passing strength has changed to the left, so flip the play. Shift the backs up into a spread alignment.
  • Offense comes out in I-form pro, but shifts into a five-wide set, one receiver to the left and four receivers to the right : passing strength is the same. Shift the backs up into a spread alignment. Shift the linebackers up to move the strong backer out of the box.
  • Offense comes out in a two-TE or a heavy-strong running formation, with the running strength to the left : flip the play to realign to the running strength. Shift the backs down to get the weak safety into the box. Shift the backers to the left, toward the running strength. You could think about pinching your D-Line, or moving them into a power alignment.

There aren't many plays yet in the playbook because I have only just gotten the alignments the way I like them. All the same, let me know how it works!
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TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

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petroleum
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Re: TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

Postby petroleum » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:46 pm

Putting 3 safeties on the field does not work well in madden (unless they are all deep). If you call a zone against 3 WR one of the LBs will move out to cover the slot receiver, even if the SS is already there. I'd suggest doing something like making the two high safeties always be the two actual safeties and make the safety near the line of scrimmage always the ROLB--then either tell people to get a fast coverage linebacker or use a formation substitution to substitute the desired SS for the ROLB.

rahien.din
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Re: TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

Postby rahien.din » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:34 am

petroleum wrote:Putting 3 safeties on the field does not work well in madden (unless they are all deep). If you call a zone against 3 WR one of the LBs will move out to cover the slot receiver, even if the SS is already there. I'd suggest doing something like making the two high safeties always be the two actual safeties and make the safety near the line of scrimmage always the ROLB--then either tell people to get a fast coverage linebacker or use a formation substitution to substitute the desired SS for the ROLB.

So I'm starting to notice what you are describing. Which is interesting, because I have another three-safety defense that functions properly, with a safety moving out to cover slot receivers. I'm not sure what the critical difference here is.

However, the TCU 4-2-5 is built to roll the safeties, such that the weak safety and strong safety can switch jobs without trading sides of the field - so it would be really satisfying to get this to work properly without the substitutions. Maybe this can be fixed with receiver shadows on the hook routes.

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Re: TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

Postby moonbax » Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:31 am

This appears to be the only option available for all-5+ DB defenses, which there appear to be multiple examples of in the NCAA. And it appears as though the author put a lot of thought into the gap assignments and audibles. I'll check to see how/if this book functions any differently than a stock EA book with only 5+ DB sets would function. If anyone else could check it out and confirm or deny whether all of the features perform the same way as the 4-2-5 nickel in EA's playbooks that would be very helpful.

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pick6
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Re: TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

Postby pick6 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:22 pm

What would happen if the user was playing against this defense, with the CPU controlling the D? Would it all go to pieces, or would the CPU cope ok?

moonbax
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Re: TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

Postby moonbax » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:58 pm

pick6 wrote:What would happen if the user was playing against this defense, with the CPU controlling the D? Would it all go to pieces, or would the CPU cope ok?


This is just one part of that, but if the defensive book's PBAI tags are set up correctly to respond to the offense's SETT values then you'll see more dime/quarter in response to 5WR sets, and more goal line stuff in goal line situations, and etc.. However, I don't know what other issues could be present in custom defensive books that might cause a defense to not be able to defend as capably, like if they simply don't understand their assignment.

rahien.din
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Re: TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

Postby rahien.din » Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:34 pm

pick6 wrote:What would happen if the user was playing against this defense, with the CPU controlling the D? Would it all go to pieces, or would the CPU cope ok?

It wouldn't. The CPU would have no idea that it would need to identify the passing strength, and wouldn't know how to adjust the play. It's a very user-dependent playbook for that reason.

moonbax
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Re: TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

Postby moonbax » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:39 am

rahien.din wrote:
pick6 wrote:What would happen if the user was playing against this defense, with the CPU controlling the D? Would it all go to pieces, or would the CPU cope ok?

It wouldn't. The CPU would have no idea that it would need to identify the passing strength, and wouldn't know how to adjust the play. It's a very user-dependent playbook for that reason.


Glad to see you're still around, but that sucks. Is it just that the SETT values aren't what Madden 08 is expecting or what? Is it a problem with not having "base" sets in a playbook? Because what if that could be remedied by simply replacing the "base" set and goal line set in a book with another 4-2-5 set? Yeah there would be multiple nickel sets, but I think it would be obvious to people using this book why it was done.

rahien.din
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Re: TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

Postby rahien.din » Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:03 pm

moonbax wrote:Glad to see you're still around, but that sucks. Is it just that the SETT values aren't what Madden 08 is expecting or what? Is it a problem with not having "base" sets in a playbook? Because what if that could be remedied by simply replacing the "base" set and goal line set in a book with another 4-2-5 set? Yeah there would be multiple nickel sets, but I think it would be obvious to people using this book why it was done.

You may be right - I don't know enough about those tables to really say.

But, my guess is that the computer simply wouldn't know how to operate the formation shifts. It's designed so that the secondary can effectively be called separately from the front six, by flipping the entire play. As such, DL shifts are predominantly designed to correct their alignment when the play is flipped so that their run fits are right. I don't think Madden's CPU engine is equipped to understand that, so I think that run fits could be manipulated easily just by forcing the CPU to flip the play. (I could be wrong, though.)

That said, I'm using TCU's base DL alignment (9-1-3-9). If you made that alignment symmetric, then the CPU would be less susceptible to that play-flipping vulnerability. Maybe a base alignment of 9-2-2-9? Spitballin'.

Thanks, by the way. I have so little time lately that I mostly lurk, but I'm around. If I make enough incremental improvement to my PB's I'll eventually post them.

zorinos123
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Re: TCU 4-2-5 Defense Playbook

Postby zorinos123 » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:05 am

I tried to download the playbook but madden says it is corrupted. Any chance you can re upload it?


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