I've been in a coma

MikeWest502
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Re: I've been in a coma

Postby MikeWest502 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:19 pm

RevanFan wrote:
MikeWest502 wrote:
Austinmario13 wrote:
So you like EA's microtransactions, play scripting, and encouraging gambling to kids? Ok, that's fine with me. :roll:


Austinmario13, go dig a ditch please! I said I like the football and whats good about it, the simple essence of the sports video game, nothing more! I don't get wound up with the extra's like you guys! And what ever I like is good for me. I'm not your business, so yeah, it's gotta be fine with you!!!

And the fact I noticed is you been a member here since 2011, over 3000 posts about Madden 08. You clearly are a fan too! Just on the inside :lol:

Madden 20, and all non-Sony sports games now, are completely devoid of what used to make them great. They're completely bogged down by predatory, frankly evil monetization that preys on the vulnerable: children and people with gambling addictions or addictive personalities. Modern arcade sports games, other than MLB The Show, are exclusively designed to cheat people out of their money and give it to a bunch of pompous billionaires who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves. The issues we have with modern sports games, including Madden, are not technical. They aren't things that will be patched, they're disgusting mechanics that the entire game is designed around.

I'm glad you enjoy the game, truly, but you have to admit that EA (and Take-Two with the NBA 2K games) do a lot of really scummy things in their sports games. Madden is no longer about football, it's about seeing just how many billions of dollars EA's executives can steal. I'll never buy a sports game again other than MLB The Show and simulators like Out of the Park Baseball until they go back to making the games be about the game, not about sucking the stuffing out of every wallet they can.

Well... with all that negativity out of the way (as a life-long gamer, I have a lot of strong feelings on video game monetization. Clearly, haha,) I suppose I should swing this to something positive. We've explained what we hate about Madden 20 (and sports games in general.) What is it that drives you to keep playing the game? What particular aspects do you enjoy the most? I have no respect for EA, but I am willing to acknowledge if they do something right (even though often they only do so when forced to by governments and angry Star Wars fans.)


So in the post above, you wrote you weren't the best person to ask about Madden 19-20, yet you quote me and have such a lengthy expletive about what's wrong with EA! :?

Re: I've been in a coma

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RevanFan
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Re: I've been in a coma

Postby RevanFan » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:34 pm

MikeWest502 wrote:
RevanFan wrote:
MikeWest502 wrote:
Austinmario13, go dig a ditch please! I said I like the football and whats good about it, the simple essence of the sports video game, nothing more! I don't get wound up with the extra's like you guys! And what ever I like is good for me. I'm not your business, so yeah, it's gotta be fine with you!!!

And the fact I noticed is you been a member here since 2011, over 3000 posts about Madden 08. You clearly are a fan too! Just on the inside :lol:

Madden 20, and all non-Sony sports games now, are completely devoid of what used to make them great. They're completely bogged down by predatory, frankly evil monetization that preys on the vulnerable: children and people with gambling addictions or addictive personalities. Modern arcade sports games, other than MLB The Show, are exclusively designed to cheat people out of their money and give it to a bunch of pompous billionaires who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves. The issues we have with modern sports games, including Madden, are not technical. They aren't things that will be patched, they're disgusting mechanics that the entire game is designed around.

I'm glad you enjoy the game, truly, but you have to admit that EA (and Take-Two with the NBA 2K games) do a lot of really scummy things in their sports games. Madden is no longer about football, it's about seeing just how many billions of dollars EA's executives can steal. I'll never buy a sports game again other than MLB The Show and simulators like Out of the Park Baseball until they go back to making the games be about the game, not about sucking the stuffing out of every wallet they can.

Well... with all that negativity out of the way (as a life-long gamer, I have a lot of strong feelings on video game monetization. Clearly, haha,) I suppose I should swing this to something positive. We've explained what we hate about Madden 20 (and sports games in general.) What is it that drives you to keep playing the game? What particular aspects do you enjoy the most? I have no respect for EA, but I am willing to acknowledge if they do something right (even though often they only do so when forced to by governments and angry Star Wars fans.)


So in the post above, you wrote you weren't the best person to ask about Madden 19-20, yet you quote me and have such a lengthy expletive about what's wrong with EA! :?

I meant I don't know a lot about Madden's technical aspects, in-game play, and flow. What I do know, however, is disgusting financial practices. EA is one of the biggest offenders. Only one worse is probably Activision/Blizzard. I know how microtransactions and loot boxes work, and the games that have them often have their progression purposefully stunted to encourage people to spend more and more real money. Even games I quite enjoy, like Assassin's Creed: Odyssey. But there's no worse offender than sports games.

You can know how a game works without having played it, with enough research and study. And there's nothing in gaming I hate more than the scourge of gambling mechanics.
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Re: I've been in a coma

Postby MikeWest502 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:35 pm

RevanFan wrote:
MikeWest502 wrote:
RevanFan wrote:Madden 20, and all non-Sony sports games now, are completely devoid of what used to make them great. They're completely bogged down by predatory, frankly evil monetization that preys on the vulnerable: children and people with gambling addictions or addictive personalities. Modern arcade sports games, other than MLB The Show, are exclusively designed to cheat people out of their money and give it to a bunch of pompous billionaires who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves. The issues we have with modern sports games, including Madden, are not technical. They aren't things that will be patched, they're disgusting mechanics that the entire game is designed around.

I'm glad you enjoy the game, truly, but you have to admit that EA (and Take-Two with the NBA 2K games) do a lot of really scummy things in their sports games. Madden is no longer about football, it's about seeing just how many billions of dollars EA's executives can steal. I'll never buy a sports game again other than MLB The Show and simulators like Out of the Park Baseball until they go back to making the games be about the game, not about sucking the stuffing out of every wallet they can.

Well... with all that negativity out of the way (as a life-long gamer, I have a lot of strong feelings on video game monetization. Clearly, haha,) I suppose I should swing this to something positive. We've explained what we hate about Madden 20 (and sports games in general.) What is it that drives you to keep playing the game? What particular aspects do you enjoy the most? I have no respect for EA, but I am willing to acknowledge if they do something right (even though often they only do so when forced to by governments and angry Star Wars fans.)


So in the post above, you wrote you weren't the best person to ask about Madden 19-20, yet you quote me and have such a lengthy expletive about what's wrong with EA! :?

I meant I don't know a lot about Madden's technical aspects, in-game play, and flow. What I do know, however, is disgusting financial practices. EA is one of the biggest offenders. Only one worse is probably Activision/Blizzard. I know how microtransactions and loot boxes work, and the games that have them often have their progression purposefully stunted to encourage people to spend more and more real money. Even games I quite enjoy, like Assassin's Creed: Odyssey. But there's no worse offender than sports games.

You can know how a game works without having played it, with enough research and study. And there's nothing in gaming I hate more than the scourge of gambling mechanics.


No you can't know how a game plays/works without playing it! That's like a virgin telling someone she knows how bad sex is! 8-)

Ok, so you got beef with the game makers! I get it, but you realize you're in capitalist America. The goal for them is m-o-n-e-y! They use every tactic to squeeze every nickel from everybody down to the poorest soul, on every platform! Every year, there's a new model of everything! You've been part of being micro-transacted ever since you were born! The scourge of gambling has been on every t.v show, every radio listener contest! Lottery, casino's in every city bleeding the people dry! How many pairs of sneakers are in your closet? Cheaply made cell phones cost $1000 now, how much did you pay for yours? Do you pay to watch t.v? Do you pay to listen to music? How may Itunes have you downloaded? How many pay-per-view events have you ordered? Do you purchase bottled water? That's another topic!

He just asked about if Madden 19-20 is worth looking into! I said yes, and you probably could have lead him to try a demo or buy it, try it and if he didn't like it, return it for refund with his complaints to EA!

And Mike9472 has to get beyond the better graphics echo! Maybe go load up a copy of NFL Fever or Gameday to compare to Madden 04-05 possibly! I can send you my copies of NFL Fever and Gameday if you want!

I'm going to load up my copy of Quarterback Attack! First FPS style football game ever made!

It's just a video game homies!

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Re: I've been in a coma

Postby RevanFan » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:10 pm

MikeWest502 wrote:How many pairs of sneakers are in your closet? Cheaply made cell phones cost $1000 now, how much did you pay for yours? Do you pay to watch t.v? Do you pay to listen to music? How may Itunes have you downloaded? How many pay-per-view events have you ordered? Do you purchase bottled water?

I kind of feel like answering all of these haha. Screw it.

1. One pair. I need a new one though. It's old and crappy.
2. I think, like, $700 over many months with a payment plan. Can't remember. I got it years ago, and it was already almost a year old when I got it. Original Pixel. Phones are ridiculously expensive, though, I agree.
3-5. Thankfully I still live at home, so my kind mother pays for TV. I do have my own Hulu account though. Tied with a Spotify account using the student discount, so that's why it answers #4 as well. For 5... I have never bought a song on iTunes, though I used to buy songs on Amazon before I got Spotify. I also occasionally buy CDs from my favorite bands, but they're hard to find now.
6. Never payed for a pay-per-view event, likely never will. No interest.
7. I do have bottled water, only because my tap water doesn't taste as good as it used to, and we have bottle recycling in my area. But I normally only get the store brand "40 bottles for $5" sort of things. Individual bottles of water are a scam, and most brands taste like crap anyway (except Fiji, but that's too expensive to ever be worth purchasing.)

Yes, I know we live in a broken capitalist society, but that doesn't mean I can't try to bring awareness to what's wrong with it and try to affect change. The goal for video games, and media in general, shouldn't be about making the most money. It should be about making art that people enjoy, or that makes people step back and think. Video games, even a decade ago, used to be a (decently) pure form of entertainment, (mostly) free from corporate practices. Then the 2010s came along and everyone said "oh hey, Ultimate Team makes EA a billion dollars every single quarter. Let's all do that, and make our games worse so people will be tempted to buy 'time savers.'" It's dirty and underhanded, which is definitely a capitalist trait, but it's one I'll continue to fight against until it stops. I love video games more than any other form of media (except maybe music) and I hate seeing them ruined by corporations that don't care about making a genuine quality experience.

And just so you know, I have played Madden 19+. I just haven't played them more than a few hours, so I haven't gone truly in depth.
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Re: I've been in a coma

Postby KO'BBF » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:05 am

I'm curious about NFL Fever. I've never played that one. Is it arcade, like blitz, or more sim oriented?
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Re: I've been in a coma

Postby NickyJ » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:04 pm

I've spent a lot of time in Madden 08, 19, and currently 20. 19 is trash, don't touch it.

Madden 20 has undeniably better graphics and undeniably better on-field gameplay. Madden 08 has undeniably better franchise mode presentation and more room to mod with. Under the hood, the old and new generation of Madden stink. Progression and regression are still wacky, AI team management still manages its players poorly, and exploits and gimmicks still exist even on the field.

If you're into just playing the games themselves on the field, Madden 20 is far and away the better game. I can load up any game I want and it will instantly play better than Madden 08 ever could. Part of that is I've played 08 so long that I know every bug and every dent like the palm of my hand, and Madden 20 is still fresh with new strategies I haven't mastered yet. Loading up some of the playoff games in exhibition mode and just rolling with teams I've never played with before is fun.

If you're in it strictly for the team management, stat tracking, and long in-depth franchises, then Madden 08 is better. Madden 08 lets you look at the schedule on the front of the franchise screen, and it gives you the ability to watch and play other teams' games, or even just quickly look at their records so far. Madden 20 doesn't give easy access to those things, and certainly doesn't let you play other teams' games without a huge hassle. It makes me feel like I'm in a bubble, removed from the rest of the NFL and only seeing how other teams are doing when they cross my path. The games are cool, but the isolation makes it harder to really immerse myself.

Over the years, I've found myself less patient with games. I want to plug and play, have my 60 minutes of thrills, and then move on. Madden 20 fills that role perfectly.
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Re: I've been in a coma

Postby MikeWest502 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:02 am

KO'BBF wrote:I'm curious about NFL Fever. I've never played that one. Is it arcade, like blitz, or more sim oriented?


It was Microsoft's attempt to extend their gaming platform in video football with NFL Fever 2000. It was a decent sim style. Mark Brunell was cover art player. NFLPA Licensed, I liked it, and played the franchise season! Play-by-play was FOX broadcast, Dick Stockton & Matt Millen! Play style just like Madden 2000! Also included in-game play editor!

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Re: I've been in a coma

Postby MikeWest502 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:49 am

RevanFan wrote:Yes, I know we live in a broken capitalist society, but that doesn't mean I can't try to bring awareness to what's wrong with it and try to affect change. The goal for video games, and media in general, shouldn't be about making the most money. It should be about making art that people enjoy, or that makes people step back and think. Video games, even a decade ago, used to be a (decently) pure form of entertainment, (mostly) free from corporate practices. Then the 2010s came along and everyone said "oh hey, Ultimate Team makes EA a billion dollars every single quarter. Let's all do that, and make our games worse so people will be tempted to buy 'time savers.'" It's dirty and underhanded, which is definitely a capitalist trait, but it's one I'll continue to fight against until it stops. I love video games more than any other form of media (except maybe music) and I hate seeing them ruined by corporations that don't care about making a genuine quality experience.

And just so you know, I have played Madden 19+. I just haven't played them more than a few hours, so I haven't gone truly in depth.


Well, I don't think the society is broken. The capitalism is flourishing as it was intended to do! There's no crime in that! The crime is being stupid allowing them to smartly take what you work for so hard! If a man sells a $5 pair of old shoes, yet put a $1000 price tag on them, and some idiot buys them, shame on the buyer! Unless the buyer feels the shoes are worth every penny! Then no harm, no foul!

I give you the daily employee/worker. You work for company A. First your taxed! Then have to pay expenses to get to the location. They don't have employee shuttle services! You pay company A for breakfast and snacks. Then pay company B, or C for lunch. Then pay company A for more snacks after lunch before you go home. Repeat daily for 30+ years! You help companies A, B and C all build more franchises, a new HQ and expand business/capitalism, while you buy 80" T.V, build a deck, replace your roof and buy a new lawn mower! Then you retire, and company A gives you some of your money back in pinch-in & social security!

The automobile is the biggest micro-transaction trap ever made! you spend $40-100K on a vehicle. Each week there's the large sum fill-up gas transaction. Monthly maintenance fees! Then, wipers, fuel pumps, tires, gotta wash it, GPS, in-car wifi added, Sat radio package! Annual license fees, tag fee's, plate fee's! Cupholder fee! Bleeding you every single day! And you think you own the car!! :lol:

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Re: I've been in a coma

Postby RevanFan » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:41 am

MikeWest502 wrote:
RevanFan wrote:Yes, I know we live in a broken capitalist society, but that doesn't mean I can't try to bring awareness to what's wrong with it and try to affect change. The goal for video games, and media in general, shouldn't be about making the most money. It should be about making art that people enjoy, or that makes people step back and think. Video games, even a decade ago, used to be a (decently) pure form of entertainment, (mostly) free from corporate practices. Then the 2010s came along and everyone said "oh hey, Ultimate Team makes EA a billion dollars every single quarter. Let's all do that, and make our games worse so people will be tempted to buy 'time savers.'" It's dirty and underhanded, which is definitely a capitalist trait, but it's one I'll continue to fight against until it stops. I love video games more than any other form of media (except maybe music) and I hate seeing them ruined by corporations that don't care about making a genuine quality experience.

And just so you know, I have played Madden 19+. I just haven't played them more than a few hours, so I haven't gone truly in depth.


Well, I don't think the society is broken. The capitalism is flourishing as it was intended to do! There's no crime in that! The crime is being stupid allowing them to smartly take what you work for so hard! If a man sells a $5 pair of old shoes, yet put a $1000 price tag on them, and some idiot buys them, shame on the buyer! Unless the buyer feels the shoes are worth every penny! Then no harm, no foul!

I give you the daily employee/worker. You work for company A. First your taxed! Then have to pay expenses to get to the location. They don't have employee shuttle services! You pay company A for breakfast and snacks. Then pay company B, or C for lunch. Then pay company A for more snacks after lunch before you go home. Repeat daily for 30+ years! You help companies A, B and C all build more franchises, a new HQ and expand business/capitalism, while you buy 80" T.V, build a deck, replace your roof and buy a new lawn mower! Then you retire, and company A gives you some of your money back in pinch-in & social security!

The automobile is the biggest micro-transaction trap ever made! you spend $40-100K on a vehicle. Each week there's the large sum fill-up gas transaction. Monthly maintenance fees! Then, wipers, fuel pumps, tires, gotta wash it, GPS, in-car wifi added, Sat radio package! Annual license fees, tag fee's, plate fee's! Cupholder fee! Bleeding you every single day! And you think you own the car!! :lol:

That comparison doesn't work though for one simple reason. All of those items have real world value. You can sell them and get money.

The best comparison is trading cards, but even those can be sold to make back your money or even turn a profit. Microtransactions not only use despicable methods of coercion, but they don't dive you anything that has any actual value. You're literally throwing money away, after already paying $60 to $120 on the game. If it were always this way... Fine. But this is recent. Last decade or so only. Video games used to work like this: you buy the game, you get the game. No missing content, no nasty monetization, no greed. A lot of companies, namely AA and indie companies, still do that. AAA cares about nothing but the shareholders, and the quality of the games suffers.
My Historic Cowboys Teams - http://footballidiot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=240
My Cowboys Journal - http://footballidiot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3610
I'm a die hard Cowboys fan and a New Yorker born and raised.

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Re: I've been in a coma

Postby MikeWest502 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:52 am

That comparison doesn't work though for one simple reason. All of those items have real world value. You can sell them and get money....

Money does not have real world value, it's a plain piece of paper, painted and crafted with logos, pictures, watermarks and numbers! That paper has ZERO value in nature! 1lb paper not equal 1lb gold or 1lb banana's! And you can't buy what's not for sale! Nothing in nature carries a price tag! Adding a price tag is a human trait!

All companies only care about are their shareholders. Thing is, the shareholders have kids and grand kids too! So the balance of profit and keeping them happy weighs in!

Add-on game packs, map packs, etc have been around since I was a kid! I always thought it was a rip-off to release a game, and only a month or two in, deliver a $$ add-on that most felt should have been included in the original game and was a must have item! The games are developed to keep the players wanting in the end! I just never got caught up in purchasing any of those or any of the Special/Ultimate/Platinum Editions of anything!


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