DB playing WR

LukeJMiller
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DB playing WR

Postby LukeJMiller » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:27 pm

Not long ago I started a franchise file using the 1995 rosters, in those rosters the Cowboys use Deion Sanders at WR and CB. in the 1998 draft I drafted Charles Woodson with hopes to do the same. However, when I play him at WR he drops almost every single pass even when he is wide open. with the CPU Deion doesn't appear to have a problem with catching passes even though they have similar catching attributes.

If I change his position to WR he catches just about everything but can only last a couple plays at DB before being subbed out for being too fatigued.

Is there a way to make Woodson a viable DB and WR?
Is there some attribute that causes Woodson to drop passes when his position is set to CB?
Is there a way to adjust fatigue for just him, without turning off fatigue entirely?

DB playing WR

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RevanFan
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Re: DB playing WR

Postby RevanFan » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:19 am

LukeJMiller wrote:Not long ago I started a franchise file using the 1995 rosters, in those rosters the Cowboys use Deion Sanders at WR and CB. in the 1998 draft I drafted Charles Woodson with hopes to do the same. However, when I play him at WR he drops almost every single pass even when he is wide open. with the CPU Deion doesn't appear to have a problem with catching passes even though they have similar catching attributes.

If I change his position to WR he catches just about everything but can only last a couple plays at DB before being subbed out for being too fatigued.

Is there a way to make Woodson a viable DB and WR?
Is there some attribute that causes Woodson to drop passes when his position is set to CB?
Is there a way to adjust fatigue for just him, without turning off fatigue entirely?

The DCSB table, I think, in DB_TEMPLATES file number.... uh... 12, I think? That controls positional substitutions and how it affects their ratings. So you'll want to find the position ID for WR and CB. You can find the position ID in the PLAY table by looking at a wide receiver and a cornerback and finding the PPOS (I think) value.

Once you have the PPOS, you can then find the listing in DCSB that has CB subbing into WR, and make changes to it. There should be a value in there somewhere that dictates fatigue, though I'm not certain of that. I know there are definitely listings for each rating and how the game raises or lowers that rating when the player is playing at the new position, so you'll want to find the listing that covers things like the awareness and catching ratings. You may need to experiment with it, because I'm not sure what exact values they are. So just save a backup before you make changes, and experiment until you find what you need.

Hopefully that helps, and sorry my memory of how to do it is foggy. I haven't modified the DCSB table in many years.
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LukeJMiller
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Re: DB playing WR

Postby LukeJMiller » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:49 am

Awesome! It took me a while to figure out but it seems to have worked perfectly. I really appreciate it!

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Re: DB playing WR

Postby Theov » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:07 pm

LukeJMiller wrote:Awesome! It took me a while to figure out but it seems to have worked perfectly. I really appreciate it!

Could you share the file with us, because I had pretty much the same issue, but I dont know how those files work.
Thanks!

Yeah you can play players out of position, if Madden allows it with substitutes (DT playing End etc) things will be alright, but when you use and editor and play players too far out of position, they will become pretty useless.
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LukeJMiller
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Re: DB playing WR

Postby LukeJMiller » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:35 pm

Theov wrote:
LukeJMiller wrote:Awesome! It took me a while to figure out but it seems to have worked perfectly. I really appreciate it!

Could you share the file with us, because I had pretty much the same issue, but I dont know how those files work.
Thanks!

Yeah you can play players out of position, if Madden allows it with substitutes (DT playing End etc) things will be alright, but when you use and editor and play players too far out of position, they will become pretty useless.


No problem! I only made a couple changes; WR can play CB, CB can play WR, WR can play RB, and both Safeties can play OLB. I did set it so that their awareness goes down slightly when out of position, but no other stats change. If you would like any other positions just let me know and I can change the file.

This did not change the fatigue issue, when I played Woodson at WR he would get fatigued very quickly. This isn't an issue for me as I only wanted to use him at WR a handful of times a game. But I will play around and see if I can figure that part out as well.
Attachments
DB_TEMPLATES.dat
(7.08 MiB) Downloaded 89 times

MikeWest502
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Re: DB playing WR

Postby MikeWest502 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:59 am

LukeJMiller wrote:
Theov wrote:
LukeJMiller wrote:Awesome! It took me a while to figure out but it seems to have worked perfectly. I really appreciate it!

Could you share the file with us, because I had pretty much the same issue, but I dont know how those files work.
Thanks!

Yeah you can play players out of position, if Madden allows it with substitutes (DT playing End etc) things will be alright, but when you use and editor and play players too far out of position, they will become pretty useless.


No problem! I only made a couple changes; WR can play CB, CB can play WR, WR can play RB, and both Safeties can play OLB. I did set it so that their awareness goes down slightly when out of position, but no other stats change. If you would like any other positions just let me know and I can change the file.

This did not change the fatigue issue, when I played Woodson at WR he would get fatigued very quickly. This isn't an issue for me as I only wanted to use him at WR a handful of times a game. But I will play around and see if I can figure that part out as well.


Try modifying Woodson's catch attribute to about 86. And for his fatigue, modify stamina attribute above 78. Also modify punt/kick return above 83 to help with DB's catch attribute.

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Re: DB playing WR

Postby Theov » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:41 am

LukeJMiller wrote:
Theov wrote:
LukeJMiller wrote:Awesome! It took me a while to figure out but it seems to have worked perfectly. I really appreciate it!

Could you share the file with us, because I had pretty much the same issue, but I dont know how those files work.
Thanks!

Yeah you can play players out of position, if Madden allows it with substitutes (DT playing End etc) things will be alright, but when you use and editor and play players too far out of position, they will become pretty useless.


No problem! I only made a couple changes; WR can play CB, CB can play WR, WR can play RB, and both Safeties can play OLB. I did set it so that their awareness goes down slightly when out of position, but no other stats change. If you would like any other positions just let me know and I can change the file.

This did not change the fatigue issue, when I played Woodson at WR he would get fatigued very quickly. This isn't an issue for me as I only wanted to use him at WR a handful of times a game. But I will play around and see if I can figure that part out as well.

Thanks a lot!!
As a request, could you make it that both safety positions can play all three linebacker positions?
FS and SS -> rolb, lolb and mlb.
And WR at FS/SS, please.
While we're at it, I've seen some halfbacks take QB snaps... so could you make it that halfbacks can sub for QBs?
Thanks!
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Re: DB playing WR

Postby Theov » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:46 am

I used your file and it works well.

But I wonder about one substitution logic... in the second half I subbed in a CB as the number 2 WR. Now, when he gets tired somehow my punter and kicker get subbed in - not the #3, 4, 5 WR or #2, 3, 4 CBs (which would make sense).
Is there a way that the substitution logic makes sense, and we don't see punters at wide out? :D
I've always wondered - after WRs are too tired, why the next in line are punters and kickers.
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LukeJMiller
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Re: DB playing WR

Postby LukeJMiller » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:21 pm

MikeWest502 wrote:
LukeJMiller wrote:
Theov wrote:Could you share the file with us, because I had pretty much the same issue, but I dont know how those files work.
Thanks!

Yeah you can play players out of position, if Madden allows it with substitutes (DT playing End etc) things will be alright, but when you use and editor and play players too far out of position, they will become pretty useless.


No problem! I only made a couple changes; WR can play CB, CB can play WR, WR can play RB, and both Safeties can play OLB. I did set it so that their awareness goes down slightly when out of position, but no other stats change. If you would like any other positions just let me know and I can change the file.

This did not change the fatigue issue, when I played Woodson at WR he would get fatigued very quickly. This isn't an issue for me as I only wanted to use him at WR a handful of times a game. But I will play around and see if I can figure that part out as well.


Try modifying Woodson's catch attribute to about 86. And for his fatigue, modify stamina attribute above 78. Also modify punt/kick return above 83 to help with DB's catch attribute.


Thanks, I wanted to do it with out manipulating the player himself. Plus, it appears to be a very large percentage drop when players are out of position, so raising their attributes alone would not do much in this scenario. Adjusting the file worked perfectly though

LukeJMiller
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Re: DB playing WR

Postby LukeJMiller » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:27 pm

Theov wrote:
LukeJMiller wrote:
Theov wrote:Could you share the file with us, because I had pretty much the same issue, but I dont know how those files work.
Thanks!

Yeah you can play players out of position, if Madden allows it with substitutes (DT playing End etc) things will be alright, but when you use and editor and play players too far out of position, they will become pretty useless.


No problem! I only made a couple changes; WR can play CB, CB can play WR, WR can play RB, and both Safeties can play OLB. I did set it so that their awareness goes down slightly when out of position, but no other stats change. If you would like any other positions just let me know and I can change the file.

This did not change the fatigue issue, when I played Woodson at WR he would get fatigued very quickly. This isn't an issue for me as I only wanted to use him at WR a handful of times a game. But I will play around and see if I can figure that part out as well.

Thanks a lot!!
As a request, could you make it that both safety positions can play all three linebacker positions?
FS and SS -> rolb, lolb and mlb.
And WR at FS/SS, please.
While we're at it, I've seen some halfbacks take QB snaps... so could you make it that halfbacks can sub for QBs?
Thanks!


Sorry for the delay, I was not around my computer this weekend, but attached is the updated file! Again, I did try to make the awareness drop similar to what the game does to other positions.

DB_TEMPLATES.dat
(7.08 MiB) Downloaded 93 times


Theov wrote:I used your file and it works well.

But I wonder about one substitution logic... in the second half I subbed in a CB as the number 2 WR. Now, when he gets tired somehow my punter and kicker get subbed in - not the #3, 4, 5 WR or #2, 3, 4 CBs (which would make sense).
Is there a way that the substitution logic makes sense, and we don't see punters at wide out? :D
I've always wondered - after WRs are too tired, why the next in line are punters and kickers.


This one is really odd to me because whenever Woodson gets tired for me, my next WR steps in. On the file the CBs should sub in after the WRs but way before the Kicker or Punter... unless they were all fatigued at that time? But that seems crazy that all your WRs, CBs, RBs, and TEs would be fatigued. All those positions should sub in before the kicker. I will try to replicate it, but mine had been subbing correctly so I am not much help right now for that, unfortunately


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