Low Coach Ratings can make the AI dumb

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madden07eurocat
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Re: Low Coach Ratings can make the AI dumb

Postby madden07eurocat » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:52 pm

jose21crisis wrote:After a quick read of those 2 stats I got, I can say that Coach Ratings might not affect Kickers and Punters, at least not the number of shanked kicks that happen. The Special Teams Coach in the '17 Patriots is higher rated than the '07 Patriots Special Teams Coach, yet Gostkowski keeps missing FGs and having Kickoffs going out of bounds. There are also plenty of instances I've seen when the AI makes stupid decisions, like Draws on 3rd and 6. This is part of the frustration I have on Madden and will be reviewed in a different post.

A draw play on 3rd and 6 isn't the worst call in the world, but in Madden world since draw plays are VERY ineffective, I would say you are correct. I got tired of the kicker and punters being sub-par, so I used the global edits in NZA to boost their AWR and Kick ACC. I still need to test this but that's where I'm headed.
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Re: Low Coach Ratings can make the AI dumb

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jose21crisis
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Re: Low Coach Ratings can make the AI dumb

Postby jose21crisis » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:35 pm

madden07eurocat wrote:A draw play on 3rd and 6 isn't the worst call in the world, but in Madden world since draw plays are VERY ineffective, I would say you are correct.


It is bad in Madden, because of 2 factors. The 1st is the blocking of the Offensive Line. On a standard run play, the offensive line is set to run block, AKA push the other man out of the way of the back. On a draw play or shotgun run, the offensive line is initially set to pass block, which means they take a step backwards to protect the QB, THEN set to run block. This means that the D-Line and any blitzers the O-Line picked up is almost in the backfield withing reach of the ball carrier. This is realistic, the O-Line needs to sell the pass before switching to make holes for the RB. However, in Madden universe, the D-Line/Blitzer AI only follows something: The Ball Carrier. So, calling a draw only fools anyone in coverage, the pass rush isn't slowed down. This is specially effective if the CPU uses the Pass/Run Commit to call Pass and you run. I've got HB Dives out of the Singleback - 4WR (AKA Spread) formation go for about 15 yards on 3rd and 11 just because of the CPU doing a Pass Commit and and the linebackers are just starting at the RB as he bumbles and stumbles for a huge gain. Worse if it is the FullBack doing it (I use a lot of Fullback runs). This can be fixed, however. If you've been following my Playbook Overhaul, I mentioned that Shotgun running plays are more effective, as the CPU is now Run Blocking. I've gotten some Shotgun runs get me 15+ yards. I've also created some HB Screens that the AI can run very effectively (15 yards last time), but that's for another day.

The 2nd factor is how freaking slow it is. I mean, duh, you are supposed to sell the pass, then handoff the ball. This is perfectly understandable under center, as the draw takes just a few moments more to develop than a Dive, Blast or Stretch. What is pathetically slow however, is the Shotgun handoff animation. It goes like this, the handoff is actually controlled by the RB taking the handoff. The RB has a delay of 0.375 secs, before receiving the handoff. That is all it takes for a defender to run in and screw up the play. This is also fixable, as I recently did in a playbook for the Packers that Col. Trautman and I were working on. In all the new Shotgun sets added, the delay was cut to 0.175 secs IIRC. This makes the animation occur faster, allowing the run too proceed faster and it seems more smooth. On my Journal, I gave the Packers that playbook and they used it very effectively.
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Re: Low Coach Ratings can make the AI dumb

Postby madden07eurocat » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:13 am

You haven't posted that playbook yet? I was looking through your thread and I didn't see it anywhere. Packers offense, correct?
I guess I'm going to have to learn how to replace the playbooks. :oops:
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Re: Low Coach Ratings can make the AI dumb

Postby jose21crisis » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:01 am

madden07eurocat wrote:You haven't posted that playbook yet? I was looking through your thread and I didn't see it anywhere. Packers offense, correct?
I guess I'm going to have to learn how to replace the playbooks. :oops:


Now just yet. There is a thread here in "General Discussion" in which I ask if the Fade route can be completed. That evolved into a deeper discussion about playbooks with Trey31. You can check that and should be able to find an attachment called NewPackersOffense somewhere.
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If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Always have a plan. And a backup plan. And backups to the backup.
And be able to improvise.

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Re: Low Coach Ratings can make the AI dumb

Postby jose21crisis » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:05 am

Another one of my findings is the CPU PlayCalling. Specifically, the constant use of long range throws, like 40+ yards everynow and then. I know this happens in the NFL as well (Todd Haley on 3rd and 4th and inches, deep posts coupled with screen passes, has been a particularly big offender. They worked as much as they failed.) but I've seen that every team that is a "West Coast" team does this at least once a game. Last time, I CPU vs. CPU'd a game Packers vs. Falcons. The very first play of the Falcons was a deep pass, and they threw it deep about twice per quarter after that in a losing effort. I decided to check the Coach Offensive and Defensive Philosophies to see what I could discover.

Dan Quinn, Falcons HC.

Code: Select all

Defense Tendencies:
50/50% Pass/Run Defense Ratio.
50 Defensive Aggression.
60/40% Pass/Run Offense Ratio.
53 Offensive Aggression.

This would make him a "West Coast, Shut Down Runs" coach. (I know that in game it would say "West Coast, Contain Passing" but I think EA Sports was going to hook up the Defense Pass/Run Ratio and Defense Aggression to the Defensive Philosophies seen on the menu, but, EA being EA, they didn't, or made it wrong and hooked up both offensive and defensive philosophies to Offensive Pass Ratio and aggression)

Mike McCarthy, Packers HC.

Code: Select all

Defense Tendencies:
50/50% Pass/Run Defense Ratio.
50 Defensive Aggression.
57/43% Pass/Run Offense Ratio.
53 Offensive Aggression.

This would also make him a "West Coast, Shut Down Runs" coach, which the Packers did in that game.

I though that I started to see a pattern emerge, but I needed more coaches to compare:

Mike Mularkey, Titans HC.

Code: Select all

Defense Tendencies:
50/50% Pass/Run Defense Ratio.
50 Defensive Aggression.
61/39% Pass/Run Offense Ratio.
53 Offensive Aggression.

This would make him a "West Coast, Shut Down Runs" coach.

Mike Zimmer, Vikings HC.

Code: Select all

Defense Tendencies:
51/49% Pass/Run Defense Ratio.
50 Defensive Aggression.
49/51% Pass/Run Offense Ratio.
53 Offensive Aggression.

This would make him a "Ball Control, Disrupt Passing" coach.

Bill Belichick, Patriots HC.

Code: Select all

Defense Tendencies:
51/49% Pass/Run Defense Ratio.
50 Defensive Aggression.
62/38% Pass/Run Offense Ratio.
53 Offensive Aggression.

This would also make him a "West Coast, Disrupt Passing" coach.

Jason Garrett, Cowboys HC.

Code: Select all

Defense Tendencies:
51/49% Pass/Run Defense Ratio.
50 Defensive Aggression.
52/48% Pass/Run Offense Ratio.
53 Offensive Aggression.

This would also make him a "West Coast, Disrupt Passing" coach.

Mike Tomlin, Steleers HC.

Code: Select all

Defense Tendencies:
50/50% Pass/Run Defense Ratio.
50 Defensive Aggression.
62/38% Pass/Run Offense Ratio.
62 Offensive Aggression.

This would also make him a "West Coast, Shut Down Runs" coach.

Notice the consistency?
All of these coaches have 50 in defensive Aggression and 53 in Offensive Aggression (Well, Mike Tomlin is the only exception here with a freaking 62).

What I wonder is, why all of these guys (Except Tomiln) have exactly 53 Offensive Aggression and exactly 50 Defensive Aggression. When I opened a vanilla franchise, I saw O and D Aggressiveness all over the scale. In vanilla, unmodded Madden 08 you have:

Falcons HC

Code: Select all

48 Defensive Aggression
51 Offensive Aggression


Packers HC.

Code: Select all

49 Defensive Aggression
49 Offensive Aggression


Titans HC.

Code: Select all

48 Defensive Aggression
50 Offensive Aggression


Vikings HC.

Code: Select all

47 Defensive Aggression
53 Offensive Aggression


Patriots HC.

Code: Select all

54 Defensive Aggression
51 Offensive Aggression


Cowboys HC.

Code: Select all

52 Defensive Aggression
53 Offensive Aggression


Steleers HC.

Code: Select all

46 Defensive Aggression
49 Offensive Aggression


So, why the consistent exact same setting when it comes to Aggressiveness?
Semper fi
If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. Always have a plan. And a backup plan. And backups to the backup.
And be able to improvise.


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