The reason why punt returns are nigh impossible: Bump N' Run doesn't work.

[NickyJ]

Here's Madden 04's Gamedata file. https://www.sendspace.com/file/is2gbh

[jose21crisis]

Here's Madden 04's Gamedata file. https://www.sendspace.com/file/is2gbh

Thanks.

I did some checking. The Punt Return formations in M2004 are different than M08. First, in M2004 the 4 man front Is composed of 4 Defensive Ends. In M08, it is filled with linebackers. Second, in M2004 there are 2 additional blockers close to the 4 man front of the punt return set, those are Linebackers. In M08, those same guys are safeties. Finally, in M2004, there are 2 Jammers per side. The main Jammers are corners #1 and #2. The second Jammers are FS#1 and SS#1. In M08, those guys, in the exact same order as before, are CB#3, CB#2, CB#4 and SS#1. Different players could mean different blocking effectiveness. Since in M08 you have guys that have less Strength, that means bad blocking. Also, and this is interesting, in M2004, the Jammers are about 4-5 yards down field. In M08, they are right on the line of scrimmage. This can result in press coverage that, since it is triggered a bit later, it lasts longer.

Now, on the offense. First, the 5 "linemen" and "Tight End". In M2004, from left to right, they are: RE#2, LG#1, LS#1, RG#1, MLB#2, TE#2. In M08, they are: LE#2, MLB#3, LS#1, MLB#2, RE#2, ROLB#2. Now, the Gunners. In M2004, they are FS#2 and CB#3. In M08, they are the CB#4 and CB#3.

Interesting changes between versions. I'll try to implement those changes in some custom playbooks and see what kind of results I get.

[henshao]

Damn I forgot how much the defender's sprint animations suck compared to the previous Maddens

[JPK]

Interesting differences between versions!

For a long time, the only punt return TDs I had were when I caught the ball near the sidelines and sprinted untouched to the endzone.

Then I discovered a way to return more punts for TDs, which involves running from sideline to sideline. The AI tends to make all defenders gravitate towards the ball, so there's a chance you can outsprint everyone from one sideline to the other. That can be dangerous though. Sometimes I also run backwards, a lot.

[Theov]

I will sub in some stronger guys on punt return and see what happens, but my focus has shited towards blocking it rather than returning it. Overall its a m9re effective strategy, althouvh I would love to get better returns.

For blocking a punt, I find myself using fg block on my half of the field because its going to be a touchback anyway. I use the fastest guy on the (viewer) left and move him over to the far right. Then its a sprint around the personal protector and into the punter.

For returns I use punt ret block and move one mlb next to the returner pre snap, then, a second before the snap i take the other mlb and move him also back. During this time the first linebacker will be running back towards the formation. At the snap, both will be about halfway between the los and the returner, giving me 2 upbacks to take oit the first 2 blockers.
I get about 12 to 16 yards a return this way vs 0 or 5 yards for normal returns.

[jose21crisis]

Ok, after multiple testing, as well as a little analysis of actual punt returning, I can conclude that the reason why punt returns keep failing are:

• Press Coverage is ineffective 99% of the time. There was 1 time I saw a defender completely jam Larry Fitzgerald on the LOS. It happened only once, then it never happened again.
• Players move too fast. I did some measuring using a time clock. A 92 Speed running back ran a 3.9 40 yard time at full speed. Go read that again and tell me that's is completely possible. Since everyone moves so fast, by the time the ball gets to the returner there are gunners all over him.
• The football moves too slow. Not sure if you noticed this, but it seems it takes forever for the ball to come down to the ground, be it a pass, a kickoff, a field goal or a punt. Like, gravity and forward velocity feel a tad slower than what I see in an actual game.

All of these elements combined make for punts to be nigh unreturnable. Of course, it is not impossible. Hell, the CPU can return a punt when everything goes right. Sadly, rarely everything goes right.

[henshao]

I've mentioned somewhere that I reduce acceleration by ~40 globally on my rosters. I may consider reducing speed by ~10 as well. The problem is "speed" seems to on a curve.