Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

Neal M
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Re: Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

Postby Neal M » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:47 pm

ummmm...

Spoiler:
If STR, PBK, and RBK are all USELESS, and AWR is insignificant, what attribute differentiates OL? You can just put any 5 bodies out there and get the same results? I find that hard to believe.

Re: Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

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trey31
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Re: Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

Postby trey31 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:21 am

Neal M wrote:ummmm...

Spoiler:
If STR, PBK, and RBK are all USELESS, and AWR is insignificant, what attribute differentiates OL? You can just put any 5 bodies out there and get the same results? I find that hard to believe.

Feel free to test it. This video spawned the idea. Kickers for lineman and 3-5 seconds to throw and several huge running lanes.



The reason his team is only slightly worse at blocking with kickers is because they are slightly slower than starting lineman; fewer blocking animations get triggered in M08 with slower blockers.

A super easy way to test is to save a throwaway roster, not change any attributes, then move 5 CB's to OL for a team and choose the same offensive play and defensive play and test it with a stop watch. Rush 4 lineman and no blitzes. You can get more in depth with custom formation and plays like I did, but this is testable in 15 minutes or so just doing it this way.

Also the TAK 99 vs TAK 1 was eye opening. Only affects juke sticks and hit sticking. Possibly a fumble modifier value depending on the defender TAK and/or STR rating. STR may be the offsetting attribute for fumbles as well. STR / CAR x Z% modifier value or something along those lines, or TAK + STR / STR + CAR x Z% value.

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^ 360 Madden 13 (?) scripts

Further, while messing around with other stuff I've decided AWR may not be insignificant after all. Except for user controlled K, P, KR, RB, etc. But the AWR may act as a direct modifier value for animation scripts or possibly a secondary modifier. I want to get around to testing every position and attributes eventually, but time and not having any of it is a real B.
My M08 mod work is all open-source to anyone who wants to use it in any way, no restrictions or permissions necessary.

trey31
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Re: Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

Postby trey31 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:29 am

Also I am leaning towards creating a Gameplay Mod that also incorporates PLYT edits, based on the testing I did in 2014.

They can break the game, turn it into a cheese fest, and just have numerous consequences so I'm not going to elaborate on any of that until I have something to release that everyone can test.

I'm going to post a thread specific to that though.
My M08 mod work is all open-source to anyone who wants to use it in any way, no restrictions or permissions necessary.

Neal M
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Re: Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

Postby Neal M » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:00 am

Thanks for the reply Trey.

You are right:
Spoiler:
that is depressing. I cannot tell you how many hours I spent on other versions of Madden both on PC and PS3 pouring over OL in the draft classes to get the ones with the best combo of STR, PBK, RBK and AWR, and even using size to differentiate.

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Re: Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

Postby trey31 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:33 am

Neal M wrote:Thanks for the reply Trey.

You are right:
Spoiler:
that is depressing. I cannot tell you how many hours I spent on other versions of Madden both on PC and PS3 pouring over OL in the draft classes to get the ones with the best combo of STR, PBK, RBK and AWR, and even using size to differentiate.


Tbh I think the OL gameplay on-field goes like this: #1 SPD, #2 ACC, #3 Height, #4 AWR (??? dunno yet for sure).

I'm fairly certain at this point STR 75 vs STR 95 has no discernible difference, nor does PBK/RBK 75 vs 95; however SPD definitely does, and also 6'9" OT may trigger more blocking animations than 6'3, it would be a slight difference but taking up more space probably triggers slightly more blocks as it is harder for defenders to hover just outside that zone without triggering the animation
My M08 mod work is all open-source to anyone who wants to use it in any way, no restrictions or permissions necessary.

Neal M
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Re: Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

Postby Neal M » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:48 am

d12njd wrote: Pro Difficulty gives the most emphasis to player ratings, with All Pro being second. All Madden gives all kind of boosts and nerfing.


I would like to know if this is true. I want the ratings to count for as much as possible and would like to know what difficulty to use for a coach mode long term franchise.

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Re: Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

Postby trey31 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:15 pm

Neal M wrote:
d12njd wrote: Pro Difficulty gives the most emphasis to player ratings, with All Pro being second. All Madden gives all kind of boosts and nerfing.


I would like to know if this is true. I want the ratings to count for as much as possible and would like to know what difficulty to use for a coach mode long term franchise.

In my opinion the highest amount of boost/nerf herding is on Rookie, less on Pro, less on All-Pro, All-Madden is default. That's how I see it. The CPU gets negatively nerfed against you on Rookie and gets progressively less nerfed the higher the skill level you set it to. My $0.02
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TriHard
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Re: Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

Postby TriHard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:31 am

Does attributes affect Centers' snaps? I think something has to do with that.
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tomkatt
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Re: Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

Postby tomkatt » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:23 pm

Spoiler:
CTH:
CTH rating affects player catching. Derr, right? Well, a WR with a CTH of 1 catches approximately 49% of passes when a defender is in the vicinity, and 67% when no defender is in the vicinity. A 99 CTH WR catches approx. 96% of passes with defenders near, and possibly higher than that with no defenders near (maybe even 100% because I couldn't get the 99 WR to drop any).

What does this mean though? It means that a WR with a 60 CTH will catch about 77% of passes with a defender near, a 70 CTH about 82%, a 80 CTH about 87%, 90 CTH about 91%, a 95 CTH about 94%, etc. Higher ratings come with the disparity of lower returns.

It's just not a significant attribute rating as a 60 CTH will catch nearly as many passes as an 80 CTH. A 79 OVR receiver with a 60 CTH will drop about 2 out of 10 contested passes. A 93 OVR receiver with a 90 CTH will drop about 1 out of 10 of contested passes. The difference of about 1 drop vs 2 is not very significant. WR SPD and ACC are far, far more significant to in-game play than CTH rating.

Although I did not notice any differences in testing, CTH probably affects the frequency of certain catching animations similar to the way JMP affects the frequency of certain jumping animations. See below.

Conversely, CTH likely affects defensive players differently, however I have not been able to effectively test defensive players as of yet.


Out of curiosity, could this rating impact whether a player holds the ball when hit during the catching animation? I've seen a variety of plays where a player jumps to catch a ball, has possession, but is hit in the air, and it seems completely subjective on whether they hold on to the ball on the way down or bobble it after the hit and lose possession, resulting in an incomplete.

trey31
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Re: Everything you NEVER wanted to know about Player Attributes **SPOILERS**

Postby trey31 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:25 pm

tomkatt wrote:
Spoiler:
CTH:
CTH rating affects player catching. Derr, right? Well, a WR with a CTH of 1 catches approximately 49% of passes when a defender is in the vicinity, and 67% when no defender is in the vicinity. A 99 CTH WR catches approx. 96% of passes with defenders near, and possibly higher than that with no defenders near (maybe even 100% because I couldn't get the 99 WR to drop any).

What does this mean though? It means that a WR with a 60 CTH will catch about 77% of passes with a defender near, a 70 CTH about 82%, a 80 CTH about 87%, 90 CTH about 91%, a 95 CTH about 94%, etc. Higher ratings come with the disparity of lower returns.

It's just not a significant attribute rating as a 60 CTH will catch nearly as many passes as an 80 CTH. A 79 OVR receiver with a 60 CTH will drop about 2 out of 10 contested passes. A 93 OVR receiver with a 90 CTH will drop about 1 out of 10 of contested passes. The difference of about 1 drop vs 2 is not very significant. WR SPD and ACC are far, far more significant to in-game play than CTH rating.

Although I did not notice any differences in testing, CTH probably affects the frequency of certain catching animations similar to the way JMP affects the frequency of certain jumping animations. See below.

Conversely, CTH likely affects defensive players differently, however I have not been able to effectively test defensive players as of yet.


Out of curiosity, could this rating impact whether a player holds the ball when hit during the catching animation? I've seen a variety of plays where a player jumps to catch a ball, has possession, but is hit in the air, and it seems completely subjective on whether they hold on to the ball on the way down or bobble it after the hit and lose possession, resulting in an incomplete.


I have no time to test anything any time soon, if you'd like to test it I'd love to hear your results though! It sounds plausible, though on the "covered" portion of testing the receivers occasionally got straight jacked. I didn't pay attention to what you suggested might be possible though. Who knows really? I know the TAK only affecting hit sticks and the BTK only affecting truck/juke stick really irks me. I overpaid for free agent "big hitters" on defense in Madden games for over a decade... Not to mention "franchise" left and right tackles that still gave up tons of sacks....
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